Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Minister of State for being here. He is very much aware of the "RTÉ Investigates" programme and the work that was done by Aoife Hegarty and her team. It was an example of quality public service broadcasting. I know the Minister of State, like me and so many others, was appalled by what he saw on his screen. I know he wants to take action on foot of that. The Taoiseach said that when HIQA carries out particular actions, it should be in a position to press the button that will require the closure of certain nursing homes if they are not up to standard. I welcome that commitment. Unless the ultimate deterrent can be applied, that small minority which are flouting the rules will not respond.

It is important to note there are many quality nursing homes and centres that provide for the elderly within our communities and they are equally appalled by what has happened. In my own community in north Wexford, many of those who provide quality care were disgusted by what they saw on their screens. It is as important for those who are quality providers of care for the elderly that the rogue element within the sector is stamped out.

As the Minister of State knows, the bigger challenge is that we are all getting older and we are all living longer. Over the next 20 years, the population aged between 65-84 is projected to increase by 65% and the population of those aged 85 and over will double. The fact that life expectancy in Ireland is now hitting 83 years of age is a major success. Those who regularly criticise aspects of the State should recognise that the fact we now have one of the best life expectancies of anywhere in the world is something we should be proud of as a society. However, we have to ensure older people get to live in dignity in later life and we also need to ensure that, insofar as possible, they can be healthy later on in life.

While it is important for us to talk about nursing homes and the sanction that needs to be levied against those errant nursing homes, we should also celebrate those who do a lot of good work in the sector. In particular, we should recognise those with qualifications in the sector. There is a broader debate around older people within society, though, and around how we design our societies to be able to ensure that older people can take part and be involved. We can learn from societies that have faced this challenge, such as Japan and Italy. I do not think we will be going to those extremes just yet but certainly their experiences of having larger older populations are very important to learn from.

An issue I want to refer to is the importance of trying to ensure we keep people healthy. If we can keep people out of hospitals and out of nursing homes, that is the best thing we can do. Part of that is about care in the community, but it is also about encouraging a lifestyle of health and fitness right through until older age. Once you get into your 30s, 40s or 50s, when you tend to become less active, it is critically important to keep up some level of physical activity in those stages of your life. The Minister of State will be aware that in budget 2025 the then Minister for Finance, Deputy Chambers, announced there would be a review around the concept of tax relief for gym membership, but also other incentives for people to be involved to ensure they remain healthy into older age. That is something I strongly support. There is a lot of wonderful work being done by the Active Ageing programme and others about keeping older people active within our communities. Too often, there is a danger - I say this respectfully - that we do not have a Department of Health but, rather, a Department of illness and sickness, and we do not spend a sufficient amount of time focusing on positive health promotion about ensuring how everybody, but older people in particular, can live independently in the community and live healthy lives.

I hope the Minister of State, in his response, can broaden this debate. Like so many others, I share the outrage at what we saw on the "RTÉ Investigates" programme. We cannot allow it to happen again and action needs to be taken against that minority.

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