Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)

I welcome the opportunity to speak to today's legislation. While I welcome the Bill, I will speak to some of the broader issues it touches on and deals with and some of the issues that come before us today. They fall into the categories of fair remuneration for fair work, first and foremost, and some of the lessons we should be able to learn around the transposition of the legislation and the errors that were made. I wish to speak also to the fragility of the arts and the creative sector, particularly in light of the wider technological context at the moment and what we see coming down the tracks in terms of artificial intelligence, in particular. Finally, I will speak about access to justice and fair procedure.

Starting with fair remuneration for fair work, it is really unfortunate that we have had this state of affairs that has left uncertainty as to what is an equitable split in royalties until now. That certainty about the defaults gives some small protection against being taken advantage of, particularly for these artists, and it is an issue which obviously disproportionately affects people in the arts sector, which is already a sector where the paid-for work they do is often inadequate. I have many friends working in the music business and the movie business and it is just so difficult to see the commitment and the dedication that are required and the personal sacrifice people have to make to simply make a living within these sectors. As a society, we need to value this work and ensure cothrom na Féinne.

I understand that coming off the back of a court ruling, there was limited consultation available for this legislation, but I am keen to ensure we collectively engage with stakeholders ahead of this Bill becoming law. Coming into politics from the human rights and equality sector, we always talked in that field about how when we develop law and policy in this country, it is so important that those people who will be most impacted by that law or policy are consulted throughout the development of that legislation. It is so important we make sure that we properly engage in meaningful consultation with those in the arts sectors who will be most affected by this and who, as we have heard from other speakers, have been somewhat blindsided by some features within this Bill. While core parts of this Bill are a legal requirement to transpose the directive, we should explore ways in which we can strengthen it even further.

That raises two points, and they are the next two I want to explore. They are the lessons learned around the transposition and then, as I mentioned, the fragility of the arts sector itself. As regards the lessons to be learned around the transposition, we have had, due to this issue, over 20 years during which artists and producers have had uncertainty about the equitable division of royalties. The correct transposition is welcome, but we should not have to see these things come about due to court rulings. It is really important with this directive and all directives that we get it right the first time, and part of getting it right is that consultation phase. That is what will help us get it right and learn from situations like this in order that we can fulfil our EU obligations and our wider obligations to the people affected by the laws we pass.

Then there is the fragility I have referred to within the arts sector. As we know, it is already hard enough to make a living from creative work, and royalties and the like can be the difference for people in the arts between paying their bills and not. They sustain people in that craft which we all benefit from. That is important to remember because the arts sector itself is a small enough percentage of our population, but all of us, to an individual, consume arts and culture in different ways in our daily lives and we all benefit from it. "Ag tacú leis na healaíona", as the RTÉ ad that is on all the time goes. We are all consumers of our arts. It is vital that we do better as a society to support artists through measures around royalties but also wider arts funding and schemes like the basic income for the arts. I am a member of the culture, communications and sport committee and very much welcome the fact that today, or in recent days, we have heard that it will be extended. I will be looking for an expansion of that programme to make sure it reaches more and more artists into the future.

Looking at this legislation, however, it seems to me that we are rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic because this is all happening against the backdrop of a world where more and more people are having their copyright violated. I was recently at an AI event where one of the contributors explained that we have 12 Booker Prize winners in Ireland and all 12 works have been taken by Meta to feed its AI machine without the permission of a single one of those authors. This is their voices being stolen, their work being used without their permission, and people are profiting off that voice without giving them their fair share. This sits within that wider context and something that we have to look towards much more progressive legislation for. Not only must they continue to contend with online piracy, but AI companies are illegally scraping that work, training models on their voices, their music, their words, their art, in order that they can feed artificial intelligence machines which will pump out artificial culture and artificial art. We need a regulatory framework that will keep pace with those new forms of theft of work. If we do not protect the right of creators to their creative work, we will see an atrophy of that creative work and such a loss to our culture here in Ireland.

Finally, I wish to speak about access to justice and fair procedure which is a feature of this Bill. The responsibility for adjudicating these matters under this Bill is to be moved to the Circuit Court. While that is a step which strengthens fair procedure, it is vital that the system does not preclude those without the means to take a case from the getting justice they deserve. Civil legal aid in this country is inadequate. We are talking about a group of people who are often just trying to scrape by and cannot access expensive legal representation. We have many complex areas of law that can be impenetrable to ordinary people but we cannot let that complexity unfairly deny people the chance to use that law and access justice. Without adequate civil legal aid and timely handling of cases, people cannot afford to use the courts to seek protection even when they have a good case. Those are the features I wanted to raise. I welcome that this error in transposition is being remedied. I look forward to seeing future legislation and a framework that will support artists in the protection of their work.

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