John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)

I listened carefully all contributions but to one in particular. Deputy Gould certainly struck a note with me in his description of local authority and local government, the spending of money and the delivery for constituents. He was right; we need to do something to adjust the balance in favour of the people we represent.

I also listened to another contribution. We all get these briefs but to come in here to read them out word for word and not have your own view on things does not say much about democracy or showing leadership. Members have made contributions and pointed to the benefits of the local spend and how the councils benefit our local communities but there is another side of the story. Last night in Kilkenny, there was a meeting about a road in south Kilkenny, which goes through Waterford, Kilkenny and on into Wexford. It is the most dangerous stretch of road in the country and is recognised as such. The local people - there were 400 or 500 at the meeting - wanted a number of things immediately. They wanted to see Garda presence increased along that stretch of road, with the appropriate cameras in place and visibility which would clearly show the driver they are entering a dangerous area that is has speed cameras and is being monitored. They asked for specific improvements, such as the cutting back of ditches, provision of a fence, fixing potholes and some realignment here and there. They asked for some speed in the delivery of the necessary works to make the N25 fit for purpose and to take the dangers away, which would all be funded by TII and Government. They were aghast to hear the presence of extra gardaí at that point on the road would be subject to constraints, with relevance to how the number of gardaí were being deployed around that area. The specific improvements the community asked for could easily be carried out, costed and done but that is subject to approval by the council and TII and funding is an issue. They then moved onto the bigger TII project and the delivery of that motorway as fit for purpose. They were told this was also subject to finance. In 2021 and 2022, when the finance should have been delivered to that community to get the project under way, in terms of TII, the Government failed to deliver the money because it was dancing to a greener tune at that time. This has now passed and we are into a new regime.

To ensure he builds confidence with a community like that in south Kilkenny, the Minister needs to bring forward the €200 million or so that has been promised for next year.

The Government needs to set it on course, to get delivery of the project to restore safety and to ensure nobody else dies on this road. A significant number of people have died on it. The Government needs to fast-track the delivery of the planning process, so that the bigger project is delivered. Relevant to this debate, the Government needs to make money available to carry out the improvement works that are essential now as a result of the fact that the road will not be delivered for eight years. It also must make sure that An Garda Síochána is well funded and well resourced to provide the safety that the community has demanded. That is relevant to this tax because people are looking at it - with local problems to the fore - and are not seeing the county council spend the money collected on the works they require to have safety restored in their community. That is a big issue, particularly as the Government is collecting a significant amount of money by means of this tax.

The Minister stated that an extra €45 million will be collected. I want him to look at how local authorities spend money that is collected. A considerable amount of it is wasted. There are benefits, including those enjoyed by communities and local projects are achieved. However, the value obtained in respect of this money is not being monitored. I have tried time and again to get the Government to introduce a Bill that would make the Comptroller and Auditor General responsible for the local authority audit. I want to see that happen.

In the context of the Bill, I want elderly people who own their homes, who are living in their homes and who have been affected by the increase in the value of their homes looked after. Even though some of those homes may have doubled in value, it does not mean that those who live in them will have the money to pay the new amounts that will be demanded every year. Nobody is interested in looking at that.

Revenue has a great collection rate. It is either 93% or 97%. How many people are we pushing further into poverty because they cannot pay their bills today? How many are pushing the payment of their bills to a later date? How many are living in fear because they think someone is going to come to take their house or cause them difficulties simply because they do not understand their circumstances? The Revenue Commissioners have offices in Kilkenny, Waterford and many other localities. However, they do not have staff available in their public offices to explain this tax to the people to whom I refer. They should be made to man those offices, provide a public service and explain to people what this tax is all about, particularly those who are not computer literate and cannot make their returns. These people should be assisted to understand what is meant by the word "deferral" or the fact that they can pay in instalments. The Revenue Commissioners need to come to the table on this. It is not good enough that they are being allowed to screw householders, collect 97% of the money and have total disregard for how those in a household might be feeling hard pressed in the context of putting food on the table or looking after the other bills they have to pay.

People are still living in fear that the vulture funds will come and take their homes. Others fear that the banks will come and take their homes. Some of those vulture funds are not even taxed to the extent that they should be. Why not take the money from them? Why not take the money from the banks? The Government could then ensure, as it applies a reasonable property tax, that local authorities come up with a clear proposal to show how this money is being spent. The Government is putting the onus on local authority members to raise property tax because, no doubt, there will be plenty of chief executives who will want to do just that. They will be encouraging the members to do it now because we are so far out from an election. That is when the substantial increase is brought in. I rail against that because I want to protect those who are less well off, those who are suffering the consequences of this increase in terms of the bands and those poor people who are having to pay more and cannot meet their day-to-day needs. It is absolutely essential that the piece relating to the Revenue is put in place.

It is essential that where we see a scheme like that relating to the N25 in south Kilkenny that needs money now, the Government has an obligation to keep people safe, to reach out and to ensure that whatever the chief executive of Kilkenny County Council asks for is provided on the basis of a legitimate plan that will deliver safety and save lives. I do not see anything wrong in asking for that. I do not see anything wrong in putting the case to the Minister in respect of the changes that are absolutely necessary. What we are doing here again is picking the low-hanging fruit. We are insisting on taxing people because we know where they live, which means that we can apply the tax. What about all the companies here, there and everywhere that are paying nothing? Some of these companies are offshore or are not subject to the tax system here. We have to do more about them.

How much smaller would the increases be if we were determined to root out the outrageous overspending on projects in this country? How much money could we save? How much hardship could we prevent for the people we represent by spending that money in a more co-ordinated and strategic way to help those in society who are less well off? We are happy to proceed on the basis that we know where people live and to tax them as a result. Those who cannot be caught too easily get away with it. The system that spends or even misspends a fortune can get away with it. Successive Governments have looked on, sat on their hands, and done nothing to reform the system. What we should be talking about here is reforming the system, protecting the underprivileged and those who have nothing and making sure that those who have money pay in buckets.

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