Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Deputies for their contributions.

Deputy Carthy raised the issue of when temporary protection would be up. That is not an issue I can answer. What is apparent from the statistics is that after the war about 117,000 people from Ukraine came to Ireland and received temporary protection. The figure for Ukrainians in Ireland now is around 74,000 or 75,000, so clearly it is the case that many Ukrainians want to go back home. We all want to see an end to the war. We all want to see Ukraine survive as an independent country with its borders restored and intact. If the war ends, people will want to go back to Ukraine, which is their homeland. They fled because they were forced to by the illegal invasion.

Deputy Carthy also said he thought it would be a better idea for the Department to inform people in the locality when there were discussions in respect of an IPAS centre. I do not think that is a good idea. However, I take into account what Deputies Carthy and Tóibín said. There is a situation where if somebody sees an application under section 5 for an exemption for international emergency accommodation, they assume there is going to be an IPAS centre there. That is not the case. In the vast majority of circumstances an IPAS centre will not be going in there. There needs to be a recognition that the situation has changed since this time last year. The State was the entity in pursuit of sites then and now it is the case that sites are in pursuit of the State. That has changed the dynamic of the international protection accommodation issue.

Deputy Tóibín referred to the number of applications that were rejected. The way to deal with this matter is to speed up the process. Speeding up the process leads to a fairer situation. Deputy Gannon mentioned he thought rushing the process would result in an unfairness. I am not suggesting it will be rushed at all, but the process has to be sped up. Setting a timeline in which a person has a hearing and an appeal within three months is reasonable. We need to recognise what is involved in the application for international protection. You arrive, set out your narrative as to why you are being persecuted and why you are entitled to asylum. That does not have to be an exceptionally complicated process. People have to set out that narrative. They will be asked questions about it and they can provide evidence in respect of it.

I disagree with what Deputy Gannon said about oral hearings. There will still be oral hearings. However, they will take place at the first instance process. For the first instance hearing, an applicant will have a full oral hearing. What is going to change is there will not be automatic entitlement to have an oral hearing at the appeal stage. That is a change I have to implement. I am conscious as well that we will be able to have full engagement on this when the legislation comes before the justice committee, of which the Deputy is a member. There will be pre-legislative scrutiny and it will come before the Dáil. It is my view, allowing for an oral hearing during the appeal process when there has already been an oral hearing at the first stage is unnecessary. People will have an entitlement to an oral hearing at appeal stage if there is no transcript of what they said in the first instance and if there is no recording of what they said in the first instance. The person determining the appeal will be able to hear and read what was said in the first instance.

Deputy Tóibín mentioned having an Irish sea border. If he can achieve that, I will commend him. I do not think that is going to be achievable in the short term. What is useful is the continued co-operation between Ireland and Britain. We can see migration into Ireland, in terms of asylum applications, is very much affected by what is happening in Britain and the United Kingdom. We talk a lot about people coming down from Northern Ireland and claiming asylum in the Republic, but similarity people in Britain complain about the fact that many people arrive in Dublin, move up to Belfast and get into Britain that way.

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