Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)

This is a very important debate and one that is very close to my heart. I have spent quite a lot of time in the occupied territories in Gaza and in the West Bank. I have eaten iftar with friends in Hanunas. I have sat down with people in Rafah, Gaza City and other cities such as Nablus and Ramallah in the West Bank. This is a centuries old conflict. It is not something we will resolve quickly or anything like that. I am generally proud of what Ireland has done in terms of taking principled stance on this issue. I see Ireland as the first western country to have called out the behaviours of Israel as being illegal and contrary to all of the norms of humanitarian and international law.

I made a speech a number of years ago, when I was a Senator, in which I reiterated the fact that one can be opposed to Israeli actions without being an anti-Semite. The two are not mutually inclusive. Many of the commentators I see and hear on the Israeli side of the house would try to conflate the two as if somehow to oppose the illegal and genocidal actions of the Israel Defense Forces is to be opposed to the Jewish people, to be anti-Semitic or to in any way question their right to exist or to be where they are. Those two things are absolutely side by side and I have friends who live throughout Israel who are disgusted, appalled and ashamed by what is being done in their name by the current Israeli government.

That is why this is not easy. There are always two sides to a story and this one seems particularly imbalanced. I acknowledge those Israelis who see the damage and the appalling nature of what is happening - the breaches of humanitarian law and of basic humanity going on there. I applaud them and encourage them to stand up wherever they can against what their government is doing.

I also know many Jewish people in Ireland - Israeli citizens included - who are appalled by what is happening there. This is not a black and white issue and it is not the bad guys and the good guys. We know what Hamas did on 7 October 2023 was in itself an appalling act of barbarism. Hamas sacrificed the civilian population of Gaza on the altar of its own political ambition and nothing more can be said about that. Every one of those hostages should be returned. There is no justification for keeping the hostages, for allowing them to die or, in the event of them being returned or their bodies being returned, to be paraded as war trophies the way they have been. It is disgusting and absolutely reprehensible and unjustifiable.

By a strange twist, while all of that is true, what Israel has done in response is also absolutely unjustifiable. It is outside the norms of any conflict I can think of. When we look back on this in years to come and when our children and our children's children look back on this, the questions we will have to be accountable for is: what did we do to try to stop it? Did we speak up? Did we use our influence internationally to say this cannot continue? I believe that, in Ireland, we have.

I support the occupied territories Bill but let us be honest, it will not stop a single bullet from being fired. It will not save a single Palestinian child from starving to death the way they are at the moment. It does not mean we should not do it. We should but let us look at what we can actually do. One of the things I was really heartened to learn this week was the fact that now other European countries are coming around to our perspective on this. I recognise that some European countries have a very difficult history with the State of Israel and with the Jewish people in the aftermath of the Second World War. None of that justifies acquiescing with the genocide that is currently happening. Anybody watching their televisions in Ireland yesterday and this morning will have seen reports from UNICEF, which is an independent broker and has no skin in the game other than to represent what is happening, telling us about the atrocities that are happening to children.

It is a disturbing set of events. I have a child who will turn two next month. I cannot countenance the notion that she would be in that position, or that any of us, our children, friends, families or parents would be starved to death, not for any good or justifiable reason or legitimate end but because there appears to be a blood lust on behalf of Benjamin Netanyahu and his Government to wipe out Gaza.

Let us call it what it is. Let us do what we can and also recognise what we cannot do. One of the things we can do is broker that agreement with our fellow European states. As I said at the start, I am proud of the stance this Government has taken in building a coalition with such countries as Malta, Belgium, Spain and Norway and recognising the Palestinian state. These are all important things, but again, though they are important principles, as the occupied territories Bill will be, they have not stopped a single rocket being fired or saved any lives. What we need to do now is build on that and speak to our European colleagues in all the other countries, especially those which are being acquiescent or intransigent on this issue, and make sure they understand exactly what is happening. I am not in Germany, Austria or Poland. I do not know what their national media are covering in respect of these issues, but what I see on our televisions and on the Internet from trusted news sources is appalling. It is absolutely unforgivable and will be stain on the people of the world for generations to come.

Let us take those steps forward, towards building alliances within Europe and showing we actually respect the rule of law. If we do not, what is it all for? I consider myself to be a proud European. In about half an hour, I will chair the first meeting of the Joint Committee on European Affairs in this House and I am looking forward to that immensely. I am immensely proud of what we have done within Europe, but I am also deeply ashamed of what Ursula von der Leyen and Roberta Metsola did. They are members of my party at a European level. I also recognise that they apologised for it, but it was unforgivable in many respects. To stand next to Israeli ministers and stand by them at the same time as they were openly saying they would commit war crimes is indefensible.

Let us move on from that and see what we can do about brokering alliances with other member states of the European Union, other nations which, like us, include people who respect the rule of international law. Let us recognise that we cannot allow to continue in Gaza what has been happening, that the collective punishment of civilians, including children, in Gaza is absolutely unsupportable and that the blockading of aid, those most basic things we all need in our lives, such as food, water and shelter, by a state that claims to be part, a normal member, of the international community cannot be allowed to continue. The thing about it is, however, that it will continue until the international community stands up and says it cannot. The difficulty we have is that there are major players within the international community, like the United States and some countries in the European Union, that will not take that stance. We can understand what their difficult history is, but none of it justifies what is happening, none of it justifies standing by, none of it means it is okay not to challenge Israel on the way it is behaving. None of it means Israel is not committing genocide or breaking international law.

All those things are happening and we are a member of the international community. Ireland is a country that has built its international reputation on respect for the rule of law and human rights and aid that is true to help people. Ireland needs to stand on its own two feet. I acknowledge what the Tánaiste has done in Europe, even this week. We need to build on that. We need to stop it because we will be judged on this by our children and grandchildren.

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