Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)

This Bill aims to improve workers' rights, but it also brings some challenges for small businesses, which would cause me to be concerned. I see Independent Ireland supporting this Bill going forward, but I want to raise concerns we have because there are a lot of concerns for small businesses in particular. Small businesses would no doubt have more paperwork and formal tasks like negotiations and dispute resolutions. This can take up their limited resources and distract from their main activities and running their business. Second, mandatory union recognition could make it harder for small businesses to make a quick decision about staffing and operations. This could slow down their ability to respond to market demands or internal issues. There are legal risks. If small businesses do not follow the new rules they could face legal actions, fines or other penalties without legal teams, which most small businesses do not have. It might be tough for them to handle these issues, increasing the risk of mistakes. Formal union negotiations and disputes could cause workplace tensions or disruptions. Even small disruptions can significantly affect productivity and customer satisfaction in small businesses. There are financial impacts. Collective bargaining might lead to higher labour costs like increased wages or better benefits for small businesses with tight budgets. These extra costs could be challenging. While the Trade Union Recognition Bill 2021 aims to strengthen workers' rights, small businesses may face challenges with administrative tasks, flexibility, legal compliance, workplace harmony and financial stability. Small businesses are at this time undergoing huge difficulties. If we look at the costs even for a cafe or restaurant, they have VAT, rates, power, PRSI, PAYE, Internet, refuse, repairs and foods to be purchased.

This Bill, while it aims to protect employees' rights, which are hugely important, might cause great and further difficulty. Some of these businesses are fighting for the reduction of the 13.5% rate to 9%, which is not happening. At this time, the local authority in Cork is even hitting them with charges for the seats outside their doors. They are being hit with rates for seating. One person in west Cork told me they paid €700. That is another crippling cost for small businesses, so I have concerns for small businesses.

We will be supporting this going forward. However, I often meet people who come to my clinic and who have problems in their worker space. I ask them what their union is doing, and the answer I get is, "Nothing". I begin to wonder if there is a watchdog over unions. We can talk about protecting workers and their having a union, which is hugely important, but we also need to see a watchdog over the unions to see if they are delivering because it looks to me that in many cases they do not deliver for certain people. It causes great frustration and leads to me, a politician, asking how I can resolve the situation when they are paying into a union and the union will not resolve it. Where do I have to go? That is where it leads to difficulties.

Like my colleague, Deputy O'Flynn, I was both an employer and an employee for 30 years before I came into the Dáil. I was never involved in a union in my life.

Thankfully, I was never involved in disputes, although in one sense I was in the community voluntary sector. We had issues with work schemes, although these people were not unionised. In one of the community voluntary groups I was involved with - I was chairman of it at the time - we had 70 workers through the rural social scheme, RSS, the HSE, the community services programme, CSP, Tús, the whole lot of them. Those workers, who were trying to deliver in the community, did not really have a union voice as such and that may have created protections for us as community and voluntary employers. However, being an employee and an employer for 30 years, I never felt the need to be in a union. I felt I was able to stand up on my own two feet and fight the cause if there needed to be a fight, although most of the time there was not. In the other situation, as an employer, I always tried to work closely with the people I was employing to make sure they were adequately looked after and that we did not bring a situation to a head. I find that many issues can be resolved before disputes get to a head. Unfortunately, there needs to be someone with some negotiating skills in every employment situation.

I saw the value in what happened with Debenhams, which Deputies O'Flynn and Coppinger mentioned. The employees of that company were treated terribly and that is where the benefit of a trade union came in. As I said, however, there needs to be a watchdog over the unions too. Some small people get chewed up and do not get representation from a union where they should. I have seen that over the years. The first thing I do when somebody comes to me with a problem is ask what their union says. They may say their union is not representing their view. There are questions as to why a union that is meant to protect a person's viewpoints is not doing so at that point.

I have worries about small businesses. This Bill would create difficulties and would probably create extra costs. As I said a while ago, some of these small employers do not have legal people, so there are extra costs in trying to bring on people like that. We just have to be little careful. As I said, we will be supporting this Bill, but there are concerns we have that might need to be acceded to.

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