Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the fact that Members have come in. The point I was making is that we need to be aware of what people expect of our justice system and policing in our community. People expect that, if there is criminal activity, An Garda Síochána will investigate it promptly. They also expect that, if there is suspicion of criminal activity and there is sufficient evidence, it will be brought before the courts and dealt with appropriately by the justice system.

Another factor we need to focus on before looking at the specifics of policing and safety in our community is the causes of crime. Identifying the causes of crime in our community and what gives rise to a sense of unsafety in our communities is complex and complicated. It is unquestionably the case that, when we hear contributions from Members over the course of the next two hours, we will hear that one of the major causes of crime is the prevalence of drugs in our communities. It is a catalyst for criminal activity, it causes a substantial amount of it and it is a form of criminal behaviour that results in violence and individuals being involved in behaviour that results in many others being harmed. That is not just the harm that is caused through the violence associated with the drugs trade but also the harm caused to individuals who find themselves unfortunate enough to be caught up in drug addiction. Anyone who is aware of individuals who have the misfortune to find themselves addicted to drugs will be aware that it is a terrible condition for any person to end up in. It is extremely hard for anyone to get off the path of drug addiction. It is also extremely easy for those addicted to drugs to find themselves caught up in the criminal justice system and before the courts. It is essential we are aware of the central role that drug addiction, which arises from drug dealing, can play in causing a lack of safety in our society.

That makes us reflect upon the fact we also need to focus on trying to ensure people do not get involved in criminality and get caught up in the criminal system. Any study of crime and criminality will show that it is between the ages of 13 years and 30 years that boys and men find themselves caught on the wrong side of the law. We can also identify certain locations where, unfortunately, there is a higher incidence of individuals getting caught up with An Garda Síochána than in other areas. That is why it is so important we continue to do what we have done in respect of the north inner city partnership to increase resources for schools such as DEIS schools in areas that have a high incidence of deprivation. It is also extremely important we ensure there are psychological and therapist services in place for communities where there is a high incidence of deprivation, which can lead to certain aspects of criminal activity. That is something we cannot ignore. The criminal justice system cannot deal with crime through policing alone. Policing is an integral part of our response to criminal activity and antisocial behaviour but, as was recognised by the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland, policing alone cannot resolve these societal problems. That is why it is important that, as Minister for Justice, I do not look at it as just a policing issue. I am conscious that Members of this House do not view it as simply a policing issue.

I will look at An Garda Síochána because, in any debate on policing and safety in the community, we must start with An Garda Síochána. As I have stated previously, the Government cannot succeed and I cannot succeed as Minister for Justice unless An Garda Síochána succeeds. That is why it is so important we resource An Garda Síochána, that we give it appropriate powers and that it performs the duties we in this House have allocated to it through legislation. At present, the standard political response in this House is that, along with most members of the public, most political representatives want to see as many gardaí as possible on the streets. High-visibility policing is a priority for me and the Government in the forthcoming term. As I have said previously, it is extremely important we have that high visibility. To achieve high visibility, however, we need certain numbers within the force.

At present, there are 14,100 attested members within An Garda Síochána. We also have 3,500 civilian staff. When the number of attested members is added to the number of civilian staff of An Garda Síochána, we are close to 18,000. I regret to say we have low levels of Garda Reserve members. There are in the region of 371 members of the Garda Reserve. When it comes to the deployment of An Garda Síochána, we need to look at that figure in its totality, including attested members, civilian staff and the Garda Reserve.

My objective is to get the numbers up from 14,100 attested members. Members will be aware a recruitment campaign has just concluded. It has proceeded relatively well. It is important everyone in this House tries to encourage members of the public to consider a career within An Garda Síochána. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle will remember that the rules in respect of the age at which people can join An Garda Síochána were changed last year or the year before. You used to be unable to join if you were 35 years of age or older. That rule has now changed and you can join up to the age of 49. If you are in before 50, that is sufficient. I ask people to give consideration to it. There are many people doing jobs they do not find particularly interesting or that are very sedentary. An Garda Síochána provides a very interesting job. It is an active job that caters to diverse interests and allows for diverse roles. As I have said before, I encourage people to consider joining An Garda Síochána. I also encourage Members of this House to encourage people within their own constituencies to join.

One of the things that has also been changed, and this is an issue Members raised, is the fitness test, which has now been reduced in severity, if I can use that expression, or in how difficult it is. Reports were coming back that it was being presented in a way whereby individuals were finding it extremely difficult to complete, which was something we had to take into account. I was told it particularly seemed to affect female applicants and appeared to discriminate against them. That is why some changes have been made to the fitness test. However, I assure people that a basic level of fitness is still required in order to join An Garda Síochána.

I note that some Members have also expressed concern about the vetting that now operates for persons entering Templemore, which was raised by Deputy Kelly. I have been informed by my Department that no one attests as a member of An Garda Síochána without vetting and enhanced security clearances being completed. The recent changes are only to the timing of vetting occurring within the very robust application and recruitment processes. It is important that we try to get as many members as possible into An Garda Síochána. As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will be aware, the Government has set a recruitment target of 5,000 over the next five years or so for An Garda Síochána. That is an ambitious target but is one we should keep and try to reach. The population of this country is approximately 5.3 million at present. It is clearly the case that we need to have more than 14,100 attested members in the force.

I commend the modernisation that has taken place in An Garda Síochána and the fact that we are now using civilians to do very many of the tasks that were previously performed by attested members. It is pretty clear that most Members want to see attested members of An Garda Síochána doing policing work. They do not want to see members of An Garda Síochána doing office work or work that could be done by civilian staff. I am pleased to say that those tasks have, to a large extent, been transferred to civilian staff. That is appropriate and should continue to progress. I am concerned about the instances of members of An Garda Síochána having to wait all day around courtrooms throughout the country, especially in District Courts. That is something we will have to look at it as well in collaboration with the Judiciary, in particular, the president of the District Court, to see what measures can be brought in to ensure that gardaí are not wasting their time stuck in courthouses for long periods when that is not necessary. I will bring forward a criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill in the not-too-distant future which will deal with issues such as remote hearings. We need to avail of technology in order to ensure we can have An Garda Síochána based in the community where it belongs, rather than gardaí doing particular jobs in courts for which the public do not want to see them there all day.

I will also bring forward legislation to compile exactly the type of powers that An Garda Síochána has. It used to be the case that Garda or constabulary powers emanated from the common law and judges simply developed the type of powers that police officers had in their interactions with the public. That is no longer acceptable. The public are entitled to see what powers are allocated to An Garda Síochána and to see those written down in legislation. As I said, that is why I will bring forward legislation in respect of Garda powers, which will seek to do a number of things. It will provide express provision for stop and search powers, although these exist at present, in a more detailed way. These are important powers that An Garda Síochána must have. There is great concern in the House about the instances of knife carrying in our society. We do not want to find ourselves in a situation in this country, which has happened in other countries, where the carrying of knives becomes a norm or an accepted part of the activity, I regret to say, of young men and boys. We must continue to emphasise that the carrying of knives is unacceptable. We all know that if somebody brings a knife out with them at night-time, although maybe not with the intention of using it but as a defensive mechanism, and a fight develops, that fight will probably end with catastrophic consequences for the person who is injured and the person who used the knife. Powers in that regard will be in the Garda powers Bill I will bring before the House.

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle may be aware that a number of issues were associated with section 10 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1997, which set out the power of the District Court to grant search warrants. Two recent decisions of the Supreme Court raised question marks about the legality of that section. It did not reach a determined view in respect of section 10, but stated that there were question marks regarding it. The question marks arose in the Corcoran and Quirke cases. The Corcoran case related to a situation where a journalist was the person upon whom a search warrant was sought, granted and served through the District Court. The issue in the Supreme Court was whether the section 10 provision took into account that there could be situations where a journalist's sources should be protected. There was no express recognition in section 10 that there may be circumstances where journalistic privilege should be upheld. Similarly, there is no provision in section 10 that states that legal professional privilege should be upheld. One of the changes to Garda powers that I intend to bring forward, in response to the Corcoran and Quirke decisions, is an amendment of section 10 to ensure that the entitlement to journalistic privilege and legal professional privilege can be asserted and tested by a court in advance of a search warrant being granted.

We also have to look at Garda resourcing when it comes to the question of policing and safety in our community. Budget 2025 included an allocation of €2.5 billion for An Garda Síochána. The Garda fleet of cars has never been bigger. We also need to see greater numbers of community gardaí policing their areas, and we are beginning to see this. As I said, that is what people want to see. They want to see An Garda Síochána in their communities. We also need to look at the technology we can provide An Garda Síochána with. Criminality has become much more technologically sophisticated. Similarly, we need to ensure that the Garda is given appropriate and modern technology in order to fight crime. We have already seen the roll-out of body cameras. I want to see a situation where body cameras can be availed of by all members of An Garda Síochána. I am told by senior gardaí and the Commissioner that the presence of body cameras on gardaí is having a distinct impact on the behaviour of people who approach them. People's behaviour becomes calmer and more pacific if they know they are being videoed, and-or are on camera, or there is that ability. That is something we need to take into account. It is a positive example of technology being granted to An Garda Síochána.

I will also bring forward legislation to provide for facial recognition technology. I was at Store Street Garda station about two and a half weeks ago, where two retired members of An Garda Síochána were going through CCTV footage of the Dublin riots in November 2023. We need to speed up the process of checking CCTV footage. The way for that to be done is through the use of facial recognition technology. Like every other Member, I want to ensure that appropriate mechanisms are in place to ensure that it is used appropriately and proportionately by An Garda Síochána. However, we need to emphasise that nobody is suggesting that a person will be prosecuted and convicted solely on the basis of FRT. That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about using facial recognition technology as an investigative tool to assist An Garda Síochána in the work it is doing.

I will also look at the process of introducing a unique identifier in the criminal justice system. We talk about many other issues in respect of data, but we cannot do a proper appraisal of the policing system in this country unless we have appropriate data. We have a lot of data in respect of members of An Garda Síochána; we need to get data on individuals who are coming before the courts. We need to be able to identify the incidence of particular types of offences and who the offenders are.

That type of data will assist us considerably in trying to respond to the challenges posed by criminal activity.

Members of the previous Dáil will recall that the Policing, Security and Community Safety Act was enacted last year. However, it has not been commenced yet. I wish to commence it as soon as possible; I hope to commence it this month. It is extremely important that it be commenced because the provisions within it are important to ensure we have a modern, functioning Garda Síochána. It is also important for the purpose of recruiting senior members of An Garda, such as the Commissioner. The reason it has not been commenced yet is that we need to get the Vote for the purpose of setting up the new statutory agency, Fiosrú – the Office of the Police Ombudsman, provided for in the new legislation. My colleague, the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Chambers, will be introducing a motion in the House, if we do not have committees up and running, to ensure the Vote can be approved by the House in time for the legislation to be commenced this month. That legislation has a great advantage and it will be of great benefit to policing in this country once it is in place.

I am aware there is concern over the granting of bail to individuals. Deputy Carthy has expressed this before. I share the concern in certain instances. We need to examine this. We also need to reflect upon the fact that, back in 1997, the people of this country voted overwhelmingly to ensure bail could be refused if a judge believed there was a prospect that a serious offence could be committed by the applicant. The legislation that we have enacted does give effect to that constitutional change. I believe it is important. It is not for me or anybody in this House to direct judges – we simply cannot do that – but it is important that An Garda opposes applications for bail if it believes there is a likelihood that an individual will commit a further offence while on bail. Regrettably, it is clearly the case that there have been many instances of people committing offences while out on bail. That should result in them getting a consecutive sentence but that is not always the case. This area gives rise to public concerns about safety in our communities. Regrettably, a very significant number of the offences committed in this country are committed by a small number of people. Regrettably, they are committed by a small number of boys and men between the ages of 15 and 30 years of age. It does not give me any pleasure to say that.

I also want to deal with some other issues in respect of safety within the community. We had a very good debate here last week on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. That is an issue about safety in our community. We, and I as a Minister for Justice who is a man, need to recognise the very particular concerns that women have for their own safety in our community. As I have done before, I commend my ministerial predecessor, Deputy McEntee, who did a huge amount of work in this area. We have now seen the establishment of Cuan, the statutory agency that seeks to respond to, and seeks to put forward the State response to, domestic and gender-based violence. It is an issue that we really need to continue focusing on to ensure women in Irish society feel safer. We need to do it not just by the addition of refuge spaces but also through the policing of these criminal activities. I know from speaking to women who have been victims of domestic and gender-based violence or coercive control that they have had great confidence in and support from An Garda. We need to see this continue and grow.

We have not had much attention in recent times on gangland feuding although there have been some instances of it. I have been apprised of them by An Garda. However, let us reflect on when, a number of years ago, there was a very serious gangland feud going on in this country, particularly in this city. That feud was dealt with by An Garda Síochána. It dealt with it very successfully and effectively. We have to realise and remember that, at the time, very decent people in the inner city of Dublin were very scared about the direction of that gangland feud. However, An Garda Síochána did its work and very many individuals responsible for the heinous murders have been apprehended by An Garda Síochána, brought before the courts and imprisoned. It is important that this House commend and recognise the role of An Garda Síochána when it is successful. It was very successful in respect of the gangland feud, and that is something we should acknowledge and mention.

Another area we need to be aware of is the whole question of public order. Public order is becoming a more difficult issue. Obviously, we have to respect the rights of individuals to protest on the street, which is something I will vigorously protect, but there are situations where people seek to present themselves as protesting but are in fact harassing individuals in a public sphere. We need to look into this to ensure we do not allow people to be harassed and that our public order laws are sufficiently robust to ensure the Garda can police situations like those in question.

The public order unit of An Garda responded very effectively some weekends ago when there was a very serious series of stabbings in Stoneybatter. I know that the public order unit was available lest any issues arose there, and the Garda policed the situation very professionally and competently.

Another issue we need to consider in ensuring safety is the use and prevalence of CCTV footage. Everywhere you go, certainty in our cities, there are CCTV cameras. They are very beneficial to An Garda Síochána. Anyone contemplating getting involved in criminal activity, either during the daytime or at nighttime, in our cities and towns should be aware that there is a strong likelihood that their activity will be videoed and capable of being investigated by An Garda Síochána. That is something that is still happening and it is very useful that we have access to the footage. When I was down in Store Street, I was able to see the whole series of screens available, indicating different parts of the city. I am aware that these are available in our other cities as well.

Obviously, as Minister for Justice my focus cannot just be on the cities and towns. Along with Ministers of State, Deputies Niall Collins and Colm Brophy, we are also focused very strongly on the issue of rural crime. Rural crime presents greater challenges because, in many instances, its victims are not located as closely to a Garda station or-----

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