Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I will come back on some of the points raised. First, relating to the section, it is obviously being opposed. As I said previously, the purpose of the Bill is to allow for the appointment of 23 Ministers of State. The importance of Ministers of State is not something new. It was already acknowledged in 1924 with the Ministers and Secretaries Act that first provided for the appointment by the Executive Council of a maximum of seven Parliamentary Secretaries to act as junior Ministers. The number of Ministers of State has been progressively increasing due to the expansion of Government business, allowing Ministers to delegate some of their powers and duties to their Ministers of State. Today, the major consideration for seeking the proposed change to 23 Ministers of State, as was the case for previous changes in legislation, is the increased volume of Government priorities and areas of responsibility. The expansion in ministerial duties specifically to these three Ministries arises from the complexity across a number of policy issues, the challenges associated with managing extensive Government initiatives and the enhanced engagements with stakeholders at all levels, both domestically and internationally. Some Deputies reflected on the increased population in their contributions. That is the case. The population grew from 4.4 million people in 2007 to an estimated 5.4 million people at the end of 2024.

When we consider the need in the context of the appointment of the Minister of State with special responsibility for migration, we want to have a coherent and strategic approach to that, given the increasing number of people coming to live and work in Ireland for many years. It is a welcome consequence of the growth of our economy and the job opportunities. Nevertheless, this growth requires an increased focus on delivery of public services and ensuring that we develop a cross-governmental approach to this matter. Many of the emerging challenges we face are interdisciplinary and necessitate cross-departmental responsibilities. New responsibilities will be delegated to ensure that there is an appropriate focus across all priorities.

It is not possible to exactly compare government structures. In some previous contributions, speakers mentioned other countries. Finland, for example, is a country with a similar population to Ireland and it has 19 ministers, each assisted by a secretary of state, which is a role broadly equivalent to a minister of State. In Ireland, there are 15 Ministers. In other jurisdictions that are similar in size, such as New Zealand and Norway, I am told there are 20 ministers and ministers of state, but this figure changes depending on decisions of the government of the day.

I have already mentioned the main areas where the Government will be focusing its attention and where the assistance and support provided by a Minister of State will be essential to achieve these specific responsibilities. The Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, will have special responsibility for fisheries and he will also have special responsibility for the marine in the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications. The Minister of State in that role will provide much needed support to these Departments and to the Taoiseach to help focus in the coming years, for example, across a number of areas and support many people across the agriculture community.

We also appointed a Minister of State with responsibility for migration. As has already been flagged by the Taoiseach, the Department of Justice is being significantly reformed to make sure that its focus reflects the programme for Government. That will involve the creation of a new division with responsibility for the management of migration and also co-ordination and integration.

The Minister of State at the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science will play a clear role in securing the financial foundations and supporting many of the Government initiatives in the context of science and research.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh referenced the constitutional framework that we have. I am aware that there are two ongoing legal actions in the High Court taken by some Members of the Opposition relating to the attendance of Ministers of State at Cabinet meetings. This constrains what I might say. However, it is important to reflect that the Government has always worked within the boundaries of the Constitution and the action is being defended rigorously by the Attorney General on behalf of the Government. The Constitution is clear on what constitutes the Government. It is between seven and 15 people who must be Members of the Oireachtas, and who are appointed by the President. Ministers of State are appointed in accordance with the provisions of the Ministers and Secretaries Acts. It has been the practice for many years that Ministers of State may attend respective meetings regularly. It is in keeping with the Constitution and the procedures of government. The action is being defended in court by the Attorney General and the Government. The courts will rule on that specific matter.

Other Deputies referenced the amendments that were ruled out of order. Members who are in the House for many years know that the Government has no role in what amendments are in order. I am happy to debate any amendment. Deputy Ó Snodaigh will recall that when we were debating the Official Languages Act, it was one of the exceptional cases where, in fact, through his chairpersonship we debated all the amendments tabled. It was a unique instance. It is not the role of the Government to decide or dictate which amendments are ruled in or out of order. I respect the role of Deputies in submitting amendments and their respective opposition to this Bill.

The matter Deputy Murphy raises is not a matter for this legislation. That will be a matter for further discussion within the Government. If a proposal is brought forward, that will be made public at the time, but it is not a matter for the legislation before us today.

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