Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The Minister said, while wrapping up on Second Stage, that Supplementary Estimates are brought to and debated at all the relevant committees. As I have said repeatedly, there is one Estimate that is not, even though it nowadays falls under the group of Estimates. It is a small figure that can be buried wherever it needs to be buried. The relevant amount is €2 million. There is no accountability to the Dáil in any shape or form. I have referred to the issue in the Chamber in the past and I cannot even ask questions because they are ruled out of order. That is not the fault of the Ceann Comhairle. I asked the Minister for Finance about it in the past, when it fell under Vote 15, and was told the Minister has no official responsibility to Dáil Éireann for the matter. I asked the Minister for public expenditure and reform and was told that the Minister has no official responsibility to Dáil Éireann for the matter. The Minister was wrong to say that all the Estimates go before committees because this particular Estimate does not.

I am seeking a logical explanation. I was, in 2009, provided with a Whip's briefing on the Supplementary Estimate for Vote 12 - Secret Service, as it was at the time. The Secret Service was seeking a net Supplementary Estimate for €200,000 in 2009. It stated that a Supplementary Estimate was urgently required as the Vote was shortly to exhaust its 2008 allocation. It also stated that funding for the Secret Service Vote was to obtain information necessary for the country and that, given the sensitives associated with a Vote of this nature, information about its operation would not be made public. That is fine, to a degree, but I cannot see the Minister or his officials running around and spending €2 million to find information wherever in the world or paying for that. Who is the Government paying?

At the Morris tribunal, which dealt with informants, a specific mechanism was put in place so there was oversight of informers. That was to ensure that if there was money involved or whatever, nothing untoward happened. There is no accountability in any shape or form. In other countries, as I have said repeatedly, there is.

We are now getting less information than we used to. In 2005, former Minister Brian Cowen gave me a breakdown of the allocation and the outturn. We do not even get the outturn anymore. We are just told the amount of €2 million. That is all we are told. It is hush-hush and nothing more is said. It exists and is obviously spent because it does not come back to the State. Every year, somebody or something gets €2 million. I have mentioned other bits before. Perhaps it is appropriate, or €2 million is being flushed down the toilet. Perhaps this is the toiletry Bill, an Bille Leithreasa.

Perhaps the Minister can help. I have tried every mechanism to address this. We should take it out of the Appropriation Bill altogether or bury it in the Minister's Department's Estimate if it is meant to be there. The Government has buried a lot more funding in the Department. The amount is only worth six bike sheds or 1.5 security huts. It is not a huge amount of money, and I have accepted that. It might be enough to pay for a toilet in the new children's hospital. It is not a big amount of money. I cannot see why it is put up in big lights every year. It is not hidden away. The Government is upfront about it. As I said, "Secret Service" is stated in big letters. We are told every year.

It tells us every year that, for example, the estimate for 2024 is €2 million, the estimate for 2025 is €2 million and the change is zero. There is nothing else. Turning to the explanatory section which outlines public expenses, chapter 14 deals with the Minister's group, Vote 11, Vote 12, Vote 13 and all of a sudden you go to Vote 14 and Vote 15 just disappears. There is nothing. It then goes to Vote 17 because Vote 16 is in a different Department, the Department of housing. Of all the Votes that are allocated in the approximately 300 pages of the document, the only one for which there is no explanation, no accountability to this Chamber or to the committees, is this €2 million.

It is not right that we are told that everything is accounted for, is open for scrutiny and goes before committees, as this does not. As I said, it is not a huge amount of money but somebody should have the decency to explain exactly what this is or who the accounting officer is in relation to this. As was said in the past, and it was quite cryptic at the time, it is very different from what happens in the use of taxpayers' money in the provision of other services. What happens here is that the Minister provides a certificate, the Comptroller and Auditor General looks at the certificate and deems it to be correct and then the Secretary General plays an overall financial control role. If that happens, that means a number of public servants have sight of it, but we who are meant to have overall oversight have no role in it, other than just to turn up here, vote and accept it and say nothing. If it is more appropriately located in the Department of Justice, the Department of Defence or some other Department then so be it. I cannot figure out why it is now under public expenditure and called the Secret Service. Call it something else, if it is not a secret service. There is not and has not been a secret service in this State except for those who are operating Cobalt and others and they are not belonging to this State.

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