James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Members for their interest in the Bill and for giving their time today and at committee previously. Before I start into the substance of that, I wish to be associated with the good wishes afforded to Deputy Joe Carey by Deputy Mattie McGrath. Deputy Carey chaired the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications for the past number of years. I am sure all of us in this House wish him well in his retirement and his time beyond politics. I know he has had his health struggles so I wish him well and thank him for his commitment to this legislation when it came before that committee.

A question was raised by a couple of Deputies about the timing of the Bill and whether it might conclude in the lifetime of this Dáil. I certainly hope it does and to provide the best opportunity for this, I intend to take it through Committee Stage later this month. I think a date has been set with the committee towards the end of October. If it has not been confirmed, it should be confirmed shortly and I expect to take it through before this month is out so this shows the Government's priorities when it comes to this legislation. We do want to get it through the lifetime of this Dáil and as Minister of State, I certainly want to do that.

It is worth reiterating that this is a very important but relatively straightforward legislation. It take the reform of the MCIB as per the ECJ decision and as per best practice and reformulates the investigation body into the new MAIU. This is something we are obliged to do but it makes sense to do this and is in line with all recommendations and decisions. In parallel with that, we have added provisions to support the offshore service vessels to support what we hope will be both an emergent and burgeoning offshore renewable industry in years to come.

I thank the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications. Unfortunately, its members are not present but perhaps they will follow the transcript later or for the wider world watching. Pre-legislative scrutiny is always useful and helpful. A number of recommendations were taken on board. The recommendation that the investigation would be fully independent from the maritime sector within the Department of Transport is now in place. A conflicts of interest framework is provided for within the legislation that also addresses that recommendation. That came from the ECJ decision and was reaffirmed by the committee pre-legislative scrutiny report. In the report, it was recommended that the definition be broadly done and this has been achieved in this legislation and these definitions - deliberately so to cast as wide a net as possible and make sure more accidents not fewer are subject to investigation. A recommendation that a chief investigator be appointed was one pre-legislative scrutiny recommendation and is now in this Bill so we have listened to the committee feedback and taken it on board and will continue to do so.

A question was raised about the Lacey report and whether consideration was given to a multimodal structure that perhaps would put the aviation investigation, the railway investigation and the maritime investigation under one roof. It is important to consider the Lacey report as a product of its time. It was produced in 2009 or 2010 at a time the public mind and perhaps the Government's mind was focused on rationalisation and removing structures rather than creating them. It was a time of financial crisis. Thankfully, we are in a very different position now as we heard the Minister for Finance outline on Tuesday so it is important to have regard to that when we are thinking about the Lacey report. It was a product of its time. Notwithstanding that, there may be scope to fold in certain functions and examine synergies as times goes on but it will not be the purpose of this Bill. This is a specific legislation with a particular focus.

Offshore service vessels are included for a number of years. One is to give effect to chapter 15 of the SOLAS convention. This has to be done in primary legislation. One or two Deputies queried why it is being done in this Bill. It is a good opportunity to do it. It makes sense. It is related to the legislation. It does have to give effect to primary legislation.

Deputies Mac Lochlainn and Mattie McGrath raised an interesting point about whether an investigator should participate in a coroner's inquest or similar afterwards. Deputy Mac Lochlainn asked me to take this question away and I will. I will think about it and talk to my officials about it but my instinctive reaction is that we have to tread very carefully because there are rules of evidence that are centuries old and established for good reasons and evidence and material gathered for the purpose of one investigation cannot be neatly replayed before another form. You cannot just have an inquiry, conversation or interview in the course of one investigation and then just make that available to another forum because people divulge information for a particular reason under certain protections and privileges and that cannot just be transferred somewhere else without significant due process being involved. It is not simple but I will certainly look at it and see what might be possible.

Deputy Catherine Murphy spoke about the Victorian age and the question of Victorian-era laws - I presume she means the original merchant shipping Acts, some of which go back to 1894 - are appropriate for offshore renewable energy. To that I would say, do not underestimate the Victorians. The Submarine Telegraph Act 1885 is still in use today and actually covers our subsea cables that carry our ones and zeros across the north Atlantic to power our data centres and our online channels. A lot of Victorian legislation is still on our Statute Book and is still used today to power new technologies so there is value in old things in many cases. This legislation will be one of those.

Deputy Mac Lochlainn rasied a question about guard vessels and said it was a pity fishing vessels were excluded. I want to set the record straight on that; that is not the case. Fishing vessels can be guard vessels but they will have to deregister and re-register. A fishing vessel serving as a fishing vessel cannot be a guard vessel. According to international law and obligations, a guard vessel must be a merchant vessel and that comes with certain requirements, including that it have a load line certificate and its crew would have certain qualifications - not fishing qualifications but different qualifications.

There are a number of procedures in place. Ultimately a fishing vessel can very much become a guard vessel but it must deregister as a fishing vessel, re-register as a commercial vessel and then meet the obligations and requirements of such a vessel. It is possible. Someone may not wish to do so for that reason but it is open for them to do so if they wish.

There was a question about the Cape Town treaty and whether it would be considered in the context of this Bill. That will be ratified in a future merchant shipping Bill but Ireland already maintains very high standards for fishing vessel safety through our EU legislation. The Cape Town treaty is probably the next level again but thanks to the EU directives we are well covered in that area. There is an intention to ratify that but in a future Bill not this one.

A question was raised about qualifications. I think Deputies Catherine Murphy and Mattie McGrath both raised it. The investigators recruited to serve the MIAU will be recruited, as is the usual procedure, through the Public Appointment Service. A prerequisite would be that a candidate would have suitable appropriate qualifications. It would not be correct, normal procedure or appropriate for myself as Minister of State to specify in primary legislation the exact qualifications that an investigator should have. Qualifications change and time evolves. There could be very good people who bring life experience to the table without necessarily having particular qualifications. There is a breadth of inputs to be taken into account when someone is being considered for a position. It is far more appropriate that it be done through the Public Appointments Service with knowledge of the skills and qualifications required rather than being prescriptive in primary legislation about one particular qualification over another. That is the normal practice in drafting. There is no question but that they would be entirely and fully qualified as they should be.

The purpose of MAIU investigations is not to apportion blame or liability but to establish the facts of what happened. It is a non-prosecutorial forum. That is required by the EU directive. That is to address a few of the points that came up in the debate. I will engage with colleagues on Committee Stage, which I hope to bring forward in the next fortnight. I will not sit on it any longer than necessary. As to concerns that this would sit in the ether, certainly I do not intend that it should.

The purpose of the Bill is to streamline and redefine and recreate the MIAU out of the MCIB, or perhaps out of its ashes, notwithstanding our thanks to the MCIB for its work. Ultimately, that goal, which is a requirement of our obligations and various court decisions, is being met and, in parallel, we are incorporating the offshore renewable energy piece. That is extremely important because, as Deputy Murphy said, we had originally supported Port of Cork, which received €99 million funding in the budget on Tuesday. I visited it on Friday and met its offshore service personnel. I travelled to the harbour to see the huge ambition it has and shares. Just as passionate are Shannon Foynes, Rosslare and other harbours around the country which hope to aspire to the same. I agree with Deputies who remarked that it is at the future of our future economic and sovereign prosperity. We are enabling that in this Bill. It is such an important part of this legislation that we do lean into that and we support that vision through regulation and legislation that will enable those boats to be a part of that supporting infrastructure. That is what we are doing today.

I thank Deputies who made contributions to the debate. I thank the committee for its work on the Bill prior this. I look forward to further interaction on this very important legislation on Committee Stage, hopefully in coming weeks.

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