Dáil debates

Wednesday, 2 October 2024

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

 

12:10 pm

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Before I start, I acknowledge the distressing escalation of conflict in the Middle East. Our thoughts and, I am sure, all our thoughts are with all those affected, with our Defence Forces in south Lebanon, their families and our citizens trapped in the region, who must be brought home. We need to see all diplomatic means exhausted to bring about peace in the region.

I wish to raise with the Taoiseach today the question of child protection and how his Government will stand by survivors of child abuse in Irish schools and institutions. It is an issue that has been brought into light recently. Over recent years, we have gained a new understanding of the scale of the abuse perpetrated against children, in particular, across so many religious and State-run institutions through disclosures of abuse in industrial schools, orphanages, mother and baby homes and Magdalen laundries. Most recently, thanks to the immense bravery of survivors like the Ryan brothers, we have learned of the awful abuse of students and young children in a significant number of religious-run schools. We have also heard new revelations about abuse perpetrated by Bishop Eamonn Casey, among others.

Each time we hear about abuse perpetrated upon children in religious-run institutions, there are calls for religious orders to step up and pay their share of redress. When the dust settles, however, the State has never really stepped up to make sure those religious organisations do pay up. I have seen this myself. As a legal practitioner previously representing survivors of abuse, I saw how many were often retraumatised by a flawed redress process, in some cases, and by religious orders’ refusal to engage. The Government and the Taoiseach have called, as have I, on religious orders to pay their share of redress. The problem is that many are hiding behind what I have called the "developer’s wife syndrome" - I think we are all aware of this - where orders transfer their assets to lay-run trusts, meaning the orders may be legally liable to pay redress but no longer have the means or assets to do so. Of course, the lay-run trusts have no legal liability. What makes this troubling ethically is that the assets involved are so extensive. I have seen an investigation by Noteworthy for The Journal showing that religious orders involved in historic abuse sold over 75 properties, worth more than €90 million, between 2016 and 2022 alone.

As legislators, we must go beyond condemnation of abuse and appealing to the moral duty of orders. We have to review the broader issue of why we still have the bulk of schools under religious patronage and why we do not have a true separation of church and State. On the practical issue of redress, just three weeks ago, I shared with the Taoiseach a Bill that we in the Labour Party drafted to ensure religious orders would be compelled to contribute in full to redress schemes and could not hide behind any legal mechanisms or lay-run trusts. The Taoiseach said he will work with the Opposition parties on this crucial issue. Indeed, I previously welcomed the engagement of the Minister, Deputy Foley, with Opposition parties on the scoping inquiry and the commitment to statutory redress. What the Taoiseach has not confirmed is whether he will ensure that organisations that facilitated or even covered up abuse will now be compelled to pay redress. Will the Taoiseach legislate to make the orders pay their share before a general election?

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