Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Absolutely, but mandatory sentencing for murder is being disapplied in this case and that means we are reverting back to common law. If the two are separated, there is no sentence for a child who commits murder. I commit to engaging with my team on that to get clarity before speaking on it tomorrow.

More broadly, the best thing we can do for young people is to make sure they get the best start in life and that, where there are challenges in their lives, as they go through school or in their communities, we provide support, as well as deterrents to engaging in criminal activity or behaviour. This Government has done a huge amount in that regard. We have invested significant money in our youth justice strategy, which was initiated by my colleague, Deputy Stanton, who was previously in the Department, and has been worked through by the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, and me. That funding does not just go to youth diversion programmes, it also involves looking at how we can expand those programmes and make sure they are available throughout the country, as well as looking at younger cohorts. It is clear that children who are six, seven, eight or nine years of age are being brought into a life of crime, engaging in antisocial behaviour and then potentially moving on to criminal activity. That funding is being used to look at how we can be more focused and targeted, with an even spread across the country. Specifically linked to that is the Greentown project. We do not talk about it enough because the work is done in certain areas without highlighting where they are. There are 1,000 children benefiting from this intense intervention in which An Garda Síochána works closely with local services and, in particular, the families and communities of these young people, understanding and acknowledging that many challenges may start in the home or community and examining how we can address that and support them. The Greentown project has been expanded but if it could be rolled out across the country using those intensive ways of working with young people, that would be beneficial.

The legislation I enacted recently acknowledges the harm inflicted on young people who are coerced into a life of crime. Five years was chosen because, for many of these children, it is a family member, parent or somebody in their inner circle. That sentence can be applied on top of the sentence for the crime. It is not just five years; it is the crime itself as well. To take that person out of the child's life could potentially be more harmful. It is not to negate the crime or the seriousness of it. There is now a law that if you coerce a child, separate from the offence itself, into crime or a life of crime, there will be a significant sentence. It is to get balance and ensure we can support the child and the setting they are in with broader support that needs to be provided. On crime and the work to dismantle these groups enticing so many young children, huge investment has gone into An Garda Síochána, which can be seen in the work in the past week alone to dismantle these organised crime groups. My role is to make sure they have resources, funding and laws to do that. I increased the conspiracy to murder sentence, acknowledging and recognising it is often not the people who make the decision who pull the trigger but they are equally detrimental and cause as much misery in communities as those working on the ground.

Separate from that is the criminal justice system. One might say some problems arise because the system is too slow. Everything I do when it comes to our courts is to make sure there is a quicker, more efficient and easily accessible system. That is why I appointed 30 new judges in the past two years and will add 20 more in the years ahead. The UK has been referenced with regard to quicker sentencing. Evidence has a huge amount to do with that, which is why body cameras are essential for gardaí. We have seen that not only can evidence be gathered quickly in the UK using CCTV, facial recognition technology and AI, that evidence can be used to ensure guilty pleas, making sure there are quicker sentences. I am doing all I can to make sure gardaí have body cameras, which has started, and facial recognition technology and that gardaí have access to that evidence, coupled with investment in judges, their support staff and the modernisation of our courts. That is the only way to get to a system that is efficient and effective for everybody.

People mentioned protecting gardaí. Yes, we need to make sure we have more gardaí. I am doing everything I can to increase those numbers and keep the gardaí we have. I point to body cameras and the effect they are already having. I have spoken to gardaí on the ground who clearly said that because of the body-worn cameras, they have been able to de-escalate situations and have felt safer. The first conviction involving body camera evidence which showed the aggression towards the Garda member has been obtained in the courts. That person received a three-month sentence, which they probably would not have received otherwise. A huge amount is being invested in our criminal justice system, An Garda Síochána and protecting younger people.

This Bill is very clear. We need to ensure equality between children and those who have aged out when it comes to sentencing for a conviction of murder. The Bill will change the position in this regard. I will come back to the Deputy on the point he raised. We will engage on it again tomorrow.

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