Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I respect the fact the Minister of State inherited the fair deal scheme, but it can cause great difficulties within families. I respect that she is trying to make changes to it and I am not here to over-criticise. I have watched people go into beautiful community hospitals. We have many stunning community hospitals and nursing homes in my constituency. People have told me that it is unfair they are being charged for it, but a charge has to be applied. Common sense has to prevail and I will not say they should be in those hospitals or homes for free or the price of their pensions. However, there are difficulties, particularly for farmers. I had two people in my clinic this week – maybe three, but definitely two – who had issues with and concerns about the fair deal scheme. It seems to attack the people who have been careful and – I will not say “honest”, as no one is being dishonest – prudent with their finances all their lives. I was told recently about a couple who grew their own produce, baked their own cakes and did everything at home, happy together, only for one to get sick. All of a sudden, it was like they were going to be robbed, with their savings taken out of their pockets at what was the end of their time.

Not so long ago, I was called in to meet someone in a nursing home in Clonakilty. When I did, he told me that he had worked hard all his life and given all his money to his family, but that he had a very good contributory pension. Combined with the old age pension, it reached the level where he had to pay €60 or €70. He had not realised that his friend, whom I hope is not listening, was in the same nursing home. They had not met for years and the man I spoke to thought the other had passed away. When he asked his friend how much being in the home was costing him, his friend – a man who had enjoyed life, had a shot of pint every day, smoked cigarettes, had had a good life and had no savings and no money other than his pension – told him that 80% of his pension kept him in the nursing home and he got 20% back. The man I met said he was up at 6 a.m., worked very hard for all of his life, was honest, paid his taxes and did everything by the book but now he was being fleeced because he did all of that whereas if he had stayed at home and enjoyed life, the situation would have been different.

Has Michael Collins found the balance? To be honest, I have not found that balance that needs to be found. I keep going back to what Phil Hogan said when he was a Minister inside here, that he would follow people to the grave for their money. That is the unfortunate advice I give people. When they come into me, I advise them to get rid of what they have before they need what could be the fair deal. God almighty, it is terrible advice to give people, but if they do not do so, somebody else will take it from them. People might criticise me but that is a fact and that is the way it is. The system is built wrong to a degree. It supports people who did not care, could not give a damn, and had a bloody good life. For those people, 80% of their pension will be taken and they will get 20% back, but the people who were careful and did everything by the book end up having to pay top dollar and lose the little bit of money they put aside. Some people may have a little bit of property, especially farms, and that is a serious concern for them. That farm is only to be passed on. Most people I know very rarely sell a farm. Rather, it is passed on. This system imposes a penalty on them.

I know that the Minister of State is trying to make changes and I respect that. I am not here to criticise but I am certainly here to put forward a point regarding the people I represent. They come in to me and feel that they are being hit from every angle and, at the latter end of their lives, they are now worried about their little bit of savings or the small farm they have and hope to pass on. I do not know what it is like in other countries but Ireland is different. People here tend to wait until death before they pass on their property and their few bob. They save their few bob to give to their children, perhaps their family, their nieces or nephews but now that is gone once they fall into this scheme.

I respect that people have to pay. I was never a believer in not having to do so, especially with the astonishing hospitals and nursing homes we have, such as Schull Community Hospital, Castletownbere Community Hospital, the nursing home in Drimoleague, Dunmanway Community Hospital and all of these hospitals. They cannot keep the doors open and pay staff if patients who have money are being cared for in them for free, but there has to be a better system than the one that is there at the moment. I would like to spend more time on this and get the right experts on board to see how we can put a system in place where everybody is treated fairly. Long ago, it did not matter what you had; you got to keep 80% of your pension inside in a community hospital. That is not afforded to people today. It is not even possible to get the community hospitals. It is mainly nursing homes today. We need to look at this. The people who were honest and fair all of their lives are being punished severely and followed to the grave.

In the minute of speaking time I have left, I concur with what Deputy Danny Healy-Rae said today on cataract procedures. It is an astonishing attack on old people to think that they were reimbursed €1,912 but that has gone down to €863. That is another attack on the elderly. I sincerely hope that the Minister of State, and the Minister for Health, when we get a chance to speak to him, can look into this change. It is an attack. The Government cannot provide the surgery for these people in Cork and Kerry. It is leaving these people there for three, four or five years until they are almost blind. Now the Government is going to take away the one little pocket of hope these people, most of whom are in their 70s, 80s, 90s or more, had, of being able to go to Belfast and get reimbursed. It is going to destroy that hope and let these people go blind. That is an astonishing attack on old people and if this Government stands over it, that needs to be pointed out in the next general election. Who made that decision? People who planned on going up this Saturday or Saturday week in buses are now being told they will get little or no reimbursement. They were looking forward to the operation, which nobody wants to undergo, but which will save their sight. This is very much an attack on them. Basically, the Government is quite happy to let these people go blind. It is bad enough to think they could not have the surgery in their own backyard, which everybody would prefer and there would be no hassle there, but now the reimbursement is cut down to that amount. It is an astonishing attack on old people and it has to be reversed.

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