Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

If I can return to the Deputy's earlier question on Europe, we had the Committee Stage debate today and some Members were in attendance. There has been a nervousness in this House about participating in PESCO, for example. Historically, Ireland's level of participation has been low. For the life of me I cannot understand this. Tomorrow in the Dáil we will have the debate on this. We are participating in critical seabed infrastructure with other member states of Europe on a programme to try to understand it better and work with others. We are participating on cybersecurity in a PESCO project and also with the European Defence Agency, along with other member states. We will not be able to protect ourselves against cybersecurity attacks if we do not collaborate and co-operate with other member states of Europe and indeed further afield. It is about sharing knowledge against these perpetrators of cybercrime, which can destroy utilities. It could destroy water supplies, or health services, as we saw in the HSE attack. It is the same with critical seabed infrastructure. It is a very complex area, a lot of technology involved. It is not all just about ships. We need the know-how. We need to share our know-how with others and they with us. That is how we beat it and keep on top of it. I could not agree more with the Deputy. On the squeamishness sometimes around participating in PESCO, we need to wise up a small bit. This is not groundbreaking. Today we were talking about an energy management course that will cost about €1,500 to join and maybe €5,000 per member and there was only four to six joining. Someone will stand up and say that is threatening neutrality. That is where we are in the national debate in Ireland. We need to have a really serious debate. That energy management programme, which I think was under EDA or PESCO, will enable us to get better systems for our own barracks.

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