Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate that but I ask the Minister of State to meet her again to give that apology to her. It is important for her that that happens.

The whole situation around the Covid-19 crisis and nursing homes was incredible: 2,323 people died and 27% of all deaths during Covid happened in the nursing homes. They were the ground zero of Covid. The Government moved thousands of people from hospitals into nursing homes, many of whom were not tested for Covid. It had the effect of seeding Covid throughout the nursing home sector, which inevitably led to significant numbers of deaths in those nursing homes.

Staffing in nursing homes was chaotic. Nursing homes reported to me they were being abandoned in terms of staffing. A nursing home in Galway had all but two staff test positive for Covid during an outbreak in which it saw five residents die. I remember the manager of that nursing home being on RTÉ radio in tears, crying that he could not get the necessary staff. The HSE said to him it had no staff available. I remember other people getting phone calls from nursing homes asking them to come in and feed their loved ones. Other nursing homes put up Facebook posts asking if anyone could come in and help them. I also remember a freedom of information request which showed the then CEO, Paul Reid, did not respond to the Minister of State's request to deal with the lack of staffing for about a month, which was incredible. He also did not respond to Phelim Quinn of HIQA for at least a month in relation to that. Nursing Homes Ireland sought a meeting with the then Minister for Health, Simon Harris, but had no luck whatsoever. The then Minister for Health, who is now the Taoiseach, created a big press statement of a response, Be on Call for Ireland, where 77,000 people were asked to come and help this massive fight to staff our hospitals and nursing homes and only 400 were employed out of that.

I give credit to Majella Beatty and Care Champions for the hard work they have done in trying to get an investigation into this and to ensure families are able to accompany and support their loved ones in nursing homes in the future. That needs to be a basic right for anyone in a nursing home and their loved ones and family members. They are currently fighting in order that residents in Cherry Orchard Hospital will not be coerced into transferring to other locations. I ask the Minister of State to intervene in that situation if possible.

I understand about 50 families are suing the State through the State Claims Agency for wrongs done to them during the Covid time. It is incredible there is still no State investigation into nursing homes during Covid. I met the former Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, in Government Buildings along with other political parties to discuss plans for a review into this, that is, a review that would not be able to compel people or papers and that would not look to speak to the former Chief Medical Officer or the head of the HSE. How you could not include those people in an investigation into what happened in Covid, I do not know. All the political parties here, to the left and right of me, agreed with the Government's plans until we piped up and said there must be compellability of people and papers. Only then did some of those parties ride in to support that objective. There must be an investigation. I honestly believe this Government does not want an investigation into what happened during the Covid crisis. It will do everything it can to stop it. I do not believe we will see one in the lifetime of this Government. The Government would like to cover up many of its actions in relation to nursing homes and hospitals during that crisis.

In the North of Ireland today, the British State is involved in an investigation into the Covid crisis. Most other European countries have involved themselves in such an investigation. We do not even have the terms of reference yet from the Government. We have no plans for an investigation. It is a major injustice to the 2,300 people who lost their lives in nursing homes at that time. Second, it means the State has learned nothing on how to deal with such a crisis if it happened again. That is the purpose of a State properly investigating what happened: it can learn from the mistakes it made and put in place new policies and procedures to make sure those mistakes do not happen again. We need a commitment to a full public investigation with the power to compel people and papers. That would send a clear message that the Government means business. I ask that the terms of reference be published before the end of this Government. Were the Minister of State to commit to that today, it would be an important step for the families.

I welcome that legislation is proposed that seeks to increase oversight of what happens in nursing homes. It has to be far stronger. We will table amendments to strengthen it in the future.

Nursing homes are in a state of chaos in this country. That is a fair statement to make because we have seen 50 nursing homes close in the past four years. The bed capacity in the State is not sufficient for its population and our demographic trajectory necessitates a trend, not of closing nursing home beds but of opening significantly more of them.

I agree with Deputy Shanahan on this point. I believe the bird will only fly on two wings. It will need public delivery of nursing home beds but will also need a private sector delivering into the system. People prefer to debate the ideology of this issue than the practical elements.

It is like saying "I want to climb to the top of Mount Everest" but they do not even talk about the base camps that need to be achieved before that. The extra provision of nursing home beds, whether public or private, is necessary now. I appeal to the Government to make sure that the provision of those services is feasible in terms of the funding that is available for those services, and that the staff in those services get paid a proper income. We hear too often that staff cannot be obtained for the services. The first thing to do if we want staff is to make sure they get proper pay and conditions, and then they will come.

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