James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

This is exceptionally frustrating. We debated this very issue about 45 minutes ago. I gave answers on all of these questions and clearly the Deputies were not here. They turned up late, on Deputy Ó Ríordáin’s amendment, and hijacked that because they could not turn up on time to discuss it when we discussed it. They clearly were not listening in their offices either. Had they been listening they would have heard answers to most of the questions they have just raised. This is a complete waste of Dáil time, making a Minister of State repeat everything because they could not be bothered to turn up when we were discussing this very issue.

What we are talking about now, again, is gambling advertising, not stopping charities from raising funds, but advertising gambling between the hours of 5.30 a.m. and 9 p.m. The genesis of this is the unanimous recommendation of the justice committee, including the Sinn Féin Deputies. Sinn Féin supported this. In fact they said they backed the report but now they come in here and say they support regulation of gambling but want exemptions for the charity sector, the sporting sector, bingo, schools and radio. There were other letters about the horse racing industry. In other words, Sinn Féin wants a regulation, but wants to exempt everyone. Obviously it has done the polling and realises, since the proposal in the justice committee, that it can make hay out of this and will do another U-turn by exempting almost everybody. It does not want to regulate gambling. It wants to regulate the commercial gambling industry. That is different from what we are doing. We treat this as a public health crisis. Those Deputies listening in their constituencies will know there is a crisis with gambling addiction. The ESRI report from last Christmas shows that it is ten times worse than what we believed to be the worst-case scenario. However, Sinn Féin wants exemptions for charities, sports, schools, radio, bingo and horse racing, about which they came to me, not here tonight, but elsewhere. It does not want anything covered. It is not treating this in the same way as alcohol or tobacco or any other high-risk activity. It just wants to regulate the financial industry. That is fine, but it should be honest and say that.

Had Deputy Doherty been here earlier, he would know that quizzes are covered in this. We specifically mentioned it earlier but he was not listening. Let us look at Sinn Féin’s amendment. It amendment proposes that charities be completely exempt from the legislation. Charities have been regulated under gambling legislation for 70 years but Sinn Féin wants a complete exemption, as well as an exemption from child protection measures, anti-money laundering measures and terrorist financing measures, so exemption from all oversight. That is what Sinn Féin’s proposal does. It wants to be able to walk out of here tonight, set up a charity and have it put a house up for raffle with no regulation over it whatsoever. It wants to be able to sell as many tickets as it wants and have no oversight of its charity or to raffle a house with no terrorist financing measures, anti-money laundering measures or child protection measures. It is an interesting proposal from Sinn Féin.

What we are doing here is tackling a crisis. We are regulating an activity of gambling just as we do with alcohol, tobacco or road traffic. What Sinn Féin wants to do, to use its own language, is drive a horse and four through it. Deputy Pa Daly made the most incisive comment tonight in regard to the €10,000 exemption for local clubs. Let us be clear, local clubs and charities have an exemption up to €10,000 on the advertising side. They will be regulated everywhere else but most of those clubs with such lotteries do not actually pay for any advertising. It is just to protect those clubs when a member might put a message on Facebook, for example, asking people not to forget to buy a lottery ticket. I am a member of plenty of clubs. This is being done to protect them. Most of them do not pay for advertising. They use social media. Deputy Pa Daly said it is only when the pot exceeds €10,000 that people start to get attracted to it. That is the very essence of gambling. When people see a big prize pot they cannot resist backing money. That is not supporting your club.

It is seeing a big number online, not being able to resist and needing to buy a ticket to see whether you can win the money. Gambling addiction is not about money; it is about the high, and when you see that bigger figure, you go after it because it talks to your self-worth. Before Deputy Doherty keeps coming out with these comments, I recommend he talk to Professor Colin O'Gara, the specialist in this area, because I can guarantee he would not agree with the Deputy's proposals.

There is a real risk to the charity sector. The charity sector does amazing work throughout this country, and while there have been bad eggs in the past, imagine the sector had no regulation whatsoever, whereby any actor could set up a charity and do what I have outlined, such as raffling that €250,000 house, with nobody able to look behind the raffle to see whether are anti-terrorism financing, child protection or anti-money laundering measures. Nobody would be able to do anything because it would be exempt from the gambling regulations. That is an extraordinary proposal.

We have protected the charity, sporting and other organisations in the Bill. The system for them to get licences is much more straightforward. The sector needs to be protected and that protection is done by having fair regulation. The gambling element is not covered in the charities sector and, as I said, draws are clearly not protected.

To go back to the initial point, this provision was proposed by the justice committee, including Sinn Féin's own TDs, and it is about an advertisement ban. This is good regulation. I am happy to listen to Deputies' sensible proposals. Deputy Ó Ríordáin has made several sensible ones, but this is just bellicose bluster and Deputy Doherty has misread the situation here. We are going to protect those sports clubs, but we are not going to have a massive, unregulated gambling sector in this country anymore because we have all seen the consequences of the destruction of individuals, families and communities. Believe me, it is getting worse by the year, and the ESRI has shown that.

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