Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Deputy O'Dea is sharing with Deputy Crowe. That is fine. I thank the Minister, and as we know, auto-enrolment is a sort of mandatory pension system where employees are auto-enrolled into a quality-assured retirement savings system with freedom of choice to opt out. I am going to ask the Minister about that in a minute.

It is important that we give employees the option. This new system would increase supplementary pension coverage, especially for those who have not joined a pension scheme. However, I have concerns. I accept the need to implement this kind of system, given the low rate of pension coverage among private sector workers but there are questions. Are we building in some protections so that workers will not see a fall in the value of their pension pot? That is important, and these things need to be discussed. It is something that I have been asked on several occasions.

While employers are legally required to provide their employees with access to a PRSA if they do not provide an occupational pension scheme, the employer does not have to make a contribution on behalf of the staff member to the PRSA. One in 20 employees with a pension has, as the Minister knows, a PRSA only. Will they be included?

I have concerns for small businesses with this scheme. We need to promote small businesses and enterprise but I am afraid these extra costs will be a barrier to some businesses hiring and retaining staff, and being able to keep the doors open in some cases. These kinds of measures, while welcome for employees, also mean a proposal to increase costs for businesses. I think this would be severe on Irish-owned businesses because this Bill clearly states the obligation of the employer to pay and remit an employee and employer contribution. Among the reforms, we have the sick pay, which is very welcome. We were talking about the living wage, and now the auto-enrolment so that every worker has a pension in line with the programme for Government objective that demands our economy recovers in a way that is fair and balanced, leaves no one behind and is future-proofed against shocks. We welcome this but they are placing a burden on some businesses, particularly in rural Ireland.

I have met with several business owners recently in my own area. We know this has to happen because the one thing we see now is that people are living longer, and that is really welcome. However, people would not live on an old age pension. They would need two pensions coming in to survive, particularly we are talking about a couple and one has passed away. I know from talking to people even as it is now, they cannot survive, so there is going to have to be something like this put in place. The business owners I meet run restaurants and cafés. I met hairdressers recently. Particularly in rural Ireland, we are feeling it most. While they want to do this, their concerns are that they might not be able to afford it. What can we do to help those small businesses that have low numbers of staff and that are not like the big companies, which have a lot more intake? It is important that we give them this chance, and that they are also able to give this pension to their workers. That is what we need to do. We need a level playing pitch so that it does not matter where people work. If they want this, they should be able to get it and the staff that want it can get it, and the business person is able to say, "Right, I am going to do this for you". That is what I wanted to ask.

There is not question that there are huge challenges to this system. While it has to happen, the challenges for businesses are going to be very hard. When we talk about pensions, it is so important, and affordability is the other issue we need to examine. However, with regard to the freedom of choice and the opt-outs, could we get more details on that? What do we do when someone is in that position? Why would they want to opt out if they are able to afford this? It is all about affordability. It is all about looking at the long-term picture where a person, who is maybe a little bit older in life, is able to sustain their bills and have some quality of life. This is what we need to do.

The Government is committed to quality of life and to making sure that everybody can survive and pay their bills. That is a priority, and I welcome that. However, I have been speaking to a lot of business owners, and I just feel that we as a Government need to give them the reassurance that we will not see businesses close, that we will not see people affected by this, and that everybody who is working is in a position where they are able to do this. That would show a commitment from Government, including the Minister, the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, that we are trying to make sure that we make people as comfortable as possible, and working with them, they have will have that scheme and are not opting out. It will be interesting to see whether many will opt out when this goes through, and I hope it does go through.

I welcome it. I believe it has to happen. However, I want the Minister to consider the small, rural towns and villages that have small businesses, and make sure that they are not in the position where they either have to look at closing, or saying they just cannot afford to do this. I thank the Minister. I welcome this, and I will support it. We have to let the people know that we are trying to do our best to make sure that they have a quality of life.

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