Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

In particular, I thank the seven Deputies who contributed to this important debate, which was conducted in a good tone.

I want to address some of the issues that were raised before we conclude this Stage. With regard to the comments made by Deputy O’Reilly, I welcome her support for the legislation and her decision to see the wording in it before she makes a decision. She may correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this might be the first European referendum Sinn Féin has supported. We welcome that. Welcome to the good side.

This is definitely worth passing and worth doing. Again, I would like to repeat my words of praise to Deputy Quinlivan and his colleagues on the committee for his chairing, their work on this, and the very detailed report that was prepared. My Department and officials were happy to engage with the committee and he was very kind in his remarks about them. He hit on two key issues, which every Deputy also referred to. One of these was the need for a very clear information campaign. A campaign can be split in two ways. There will be the Government campaign and there will be the work of the Electoral Commission. That will, of course, be information-based and will provide clarity, myth-busting, etc. There will also be a political campaign. As Deputy Stanton will be aware, I have been given the onerous task of leading my own party, Fine Gael, and its campaign in support of this referendum. We are at an advanced stage of planning our public meetings around the country and engaging with business leaders.

In particular, we engaged with SMEs, as well as the trade union movement, to show just exactly how good this will be for workers, businesses and, crucially, for society and people who will benefit from the innovation that will be protected by the UPC. I am aware that Fianna Fáil has appointed Senator Malcolm Byrne to lead its campaign. I urge all parties, whether they are in favour of the referendum and the wording that will take issue in due course, to also appoint their members to lead campaigns and allow us to have a fully functioning campaign.

Deputy Stanton raised the question of what impact the McKenna judgment might have. We have seen in previous referendums that even when there is widespread support in this House, there will always be people who oppose them. An academic research paper was presented from Maynooth University a number of years ago. It said that one can take it as read that close to 20% of the population will always vote “No” in any referendum. I think the closest we came to that figure was in the 18% who voted against our original accession to the European Economic Community in 1972. The exception was the historic and monumental passing of the Good Friday Agreement, where common sense thankfully prevailed among pretty much everyone in this jurisdiction.

We have to accept, which we have heard it in debates previously in this House, that there are people who simply reject the notion of intellectual property. They think that people should dedicate their lives to research, science and innovation and invest their moneys in the greater good. That is a noble ambition, but I simply do not agree with it in terms of practicality or results. Yet, there will be those who take that position.

There are those - I could use many words to describe them, but it would not be parliamentary for me to do so - who will simply oppose anything that comes out of the European process. They will be lined up and willing to engage with the McKenna judgment and ensure that their voice is heard. They are welcome to have their voice heard. I genuinely mean that, but it will be crucially important for us to have a debate based on actualities and facts of what we are asking the people to vote on.

As Deputy Nash said, Ireland is a recognised innovation centre, not just when it comes to the life sciences but the tech sector. We need to support that innovation.

I wanted to touch on an issue Deputy Ó Murchú raised, which is slightly off the topic at hand, but it was pertinent. As the line Minister of State, this is a great opportunity for me to respond to him about the recent announcement on redundancies in PayPal. He and Deputy Nash had engagement with my office and parallel officials, as have Senator McGahon and Deputies O'Dowd and Munster.

We will ensure that all statutory obligations are met by the employer. We are already working with the local Intreo office in County Louth to make sure there are other opportunities in employment or training for those who will be impacted. When we look at the tech and digital sectors more generally and the shifting patterns, it is fair to say that the past 18 months have been extremely difficult. Deputy O'Reilly and I discussed at length the need for unionisation in our tech companies and the very great work the FSU was doing in organising in many of these companies. The fact of the matter is that there has been a worldwide shift post-pandemic in the tech sector. It has seen global job losses. Heretofore, where tech companies based in Ireland have reduced headcount, it has been far below the global averages. That is something we have welcomed. We have a very strong suite of legislation to support redundancy. On balance, we have seen far more jobs created in this jurisdiction in the past 12 months than we have seen lost, particularly in the tech sector. For every redundancy that has been announced, there have been four jobs create. For those workers who are affected, there is never a good time to lose a job for those whose families depend on it, but we will work with them to ensure they get equivalent jobs of equivalent salary and conditions in their geographic region. I look forward to working with Deputy Ó Murchú on that again, particularly on more specific debates on the issue.

Colleagues will forgive me if I do not drift too far into the cybersecurity debate because I think that would really be stretching the patience of the Ceann Comhairle. I do want to touch on a couple of points raised by Deputies Naughten and Stanton. Deputy Naughten was one of the only Deputies who used his full speaking time, along with Deputy Ó Murchú, and every word was bang on. He raised a number of extremely pertinent issues. Like Deputy Stanton, he stressed that this would benefit SMEs, and it really will. The crux of the UPC is to provide a level playing field for small and medium business that are innovating and enterprising across Europe. The multinational corporations and large companies have the resources to challenge in multiple jurisdictions at multiple times, whereas this new system, simply in registering the patent, will benefit an SME. They will save up to about €25,000 just from the get-go, no challenges needed or anything like that. That is the benefit.

In the last year or so that I have been in this role, I have been very lucky to travel the country and work with SMEs, be they local enterprise office client companies, Enterprise Ireland client companies or those just generally working in Ireland, and to see how they are innovating. I was speaking with one tech entrepreneur. Deputy Naughten referred to the ag-tech industry but this was more the equine tech industry. He had a really wonderful piece of software developed and patented here in Ireland. Due to pressures of organisations far bigger, he was left with the choice of fighting infringements or selling his intellectual property. He sold the intellectual property and good for him, he did very well and was able to start another company. Not everyone is in the lucky position to receive an offer to sell. Some simply see their hard work and effort moved on. Another was a very small company, I will not name where it is in the country because it comes down to sensitive issues. Two gentlemen of a certain age who had worked for a large pharma company for over 25 years and had the innovation are working with their local enterprise office on their own, just two people. They are working on a piece of technology that will be transformative for patient care not just in this State but across the world in the next couple of years. It is a piece of technology that requires investment. It is acutely sensitive. Like all good politicians when we visit a business, I took out the phone to get a picture and they nearly broke the sound barrier asking me not to take photos. Even if it were known what machinery they were using, that would be a risk. It is a highly sensitive, competitive area and SMEs are absolutely at risk from larger companies that want to take their hard-earned work and examples and move on.

Deputy Naughten referred to today being Rare Disease Day as well as the leap day. He put it in context that one in 17 people is suffering with a rare disease in this country. It is not that rare when you think of that. An awful lot of people are dependent on orphan drugs being developed, made and distributed in Ireland by really innovative companies. He mentioned one such company that he and I had the pleasure of visiting on Monday in Monksland on the Roscommon side of Athlone. I was reminded about a hundred times upon entering the facility that it is on the Roscommon side, not just by the local politicians. That company, Jazz Pharmaceuticals, has over 200 employees in Monksland and a commercial office in Dublin as well. I took the opportunity to implore those employees to vote Yes in this referendum. I did the exact same thing when I was in UCD this morning for a conference on space technology, and asked all the academics, researchers, students and business people there to vote Yes. My appeal, therefore, to all those who have contributed to this debate, if and when they come out in favour of this referendum, is to use every appropriate platform to engage not just with SMEs and business owners but workers and those who are benefiting from life-changing drugs, treatments, devices and software, and to ask them to inform themselves and to vote Yes. I hope the referendum will take place on 7 June with the local and European elections.

Deputy Naughten put in a very clear request in respect of the Science for Peace organisation with the Inter-Parliamentary Union. Deputies Naughten and Stanton were wearing their sustainable development goals badges, as they regularly do. I received a lovely badge in the post yesterday from the Centenary Girl Guides branch in Dundrum outlining their commitment. It is one of the SDGs to make sure we have access to clean, safe water for everyone. Deputy Naughten makes an excellent case in respect of forming a central database or repository to enable us to take advantage of lapsed patents. There is a bit of work involved and it will require collaboration and co-operation across jurisdictions. Perhaps the central administrative purposes of the UPC will make this even easier in due course.

Deputy Stanton made a couple of points beyond the implications of the McKenna judgment. I agree with him fundamentally. He shows the wisdom of someone who has been here for nearly 30 years when he says politics is often a matter of heart versus head. Deputy Stanton would have been able to tell that to the person who wrote that book without having to do any research. This will be a very difficult referendum to put the emotive sell into. We are rightly talking about jobs, livelihoods, salaries, businesses and opportunities. However, we are also talking about the development of vaccines, treatments and medicines that are keeping people alive today, allowing people to live a life they would not be able to live if it was not for the patent in this jurisdiction. We always say "patent" with a long "a" sound, by the way, and thanks for the clarity. Because of those patents, those people are living their lives. That is the emotive string that we will have to put into this campaign in due course.

In response to Deputy Stanton, if the referendum is successful and a local court is established, it will have three judges presiding, with at least one of the three having the nationality of the member state hosting the local division. We have the opportunity not just to recruit and train an Irish judge but to look beyond Ireland. On what happens next, if and when this referendum is passed and I certainly hope it will be, enabling legislation will be required. Officials are currently working through the preparatory issues such as the provision for establishing the court and a physical site for it. A Minister would need legal authority to allocate a budget to a new court and to assign staff. However, the Attorney General's office will not be in a position to draft legislation until a vote has been put to the people. There is only so much we can do before a referendum but I assure the Deputy that we are certainly working across all Departments to identify issues. When this referendum is held, I hope it is a positive result and I hope Members present and all of us who want this to go forward will support it.

The minute it is passed, we will press the button to get it up and running as quickly as possible. We will do it in a thorough and clear way and in a manner that any legal impact requires, but we want to get it ready.

I will conclude as I know there is other business for the House to get through. A few Deputies present have referred to other jurisdictions that have not yet ratified the UPC. The official ceremony to mark the UPC was held a few months ago in Luxembourg. I was the only ministerial representative to attend from a country that has not yet ratified it. I was asked directly by the Taoiseach to attend to ensure the message goes out that we intend to play a full part in this. There is a legal requirement for us to ratify it. I have already laid out the clear reasons beyond our control for the delay, including the pandemic and the legal challenges in Germany, but I acknowledge the point the Deputy made about Danish ratification in 2014.

Other member states that have not yet ratified it have not been as clear about their intentions. To be frank, there is an issue in Spain. It wanted the court to sit in Spain, rather than Milan. That is a disappointing argument and if that were the way Europe worked, none of us would engage in any of the institutions, bodies or agencies of the European Union that are not located in our State. Ireland has the Directorate General for Agriculture and Rural Development site in Meath and Eurofound in Loughlinstown. There are only so many of those that can go to each member state. Perhaps in another debate, Deputy O'Reilly can enlighten us about how Sinn Féin would have secured the anti-money laundering agency for Ireland, which will go to the European financial centre in Frankfurt.

I am going to Croatia as part of my St. Patrick's Day trade mission. I will hold two bilateral meetings with relevant ministers in Croatia and will discuss how we are progressing in ratifying the UPC and how a referendum is set up. The fact that the father of one of those ministers happens to be the Croatian ambassador to Ireland is certainly a bonus. We will also talk about how we can encourage Croatia to join, because Croatia is a growing market of importance for Ireland. For example, there are more than 20,000 Croatians living and working in Ireland, many of them ironically in the life sciences sector. We want to make sure that as many EU member states that are able to join this court do so as quickly as possible.

I thank all Members for their engagement. I look forward to the Bill going through Committee and Remaining Stages and I implore everyone to engage as comprehensively as possible in the debate in the Houses on the legislation and the referendum in due course. Ultimately, I want to see this referendum pass and the legislation enacted swiftly.

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