Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Arson is an extremely serious criminal offence. Under section 2 of the Criminal Damage Act 1991, any person convicted of arson on indictment can face a maximum penalty of up to life imprisonment and an unlimited fine. The reason we impose such a serious sentence upon those convicted of arson is because we recognise the danger associated with it. It is remarkable and extremely lucky that, to date, no one has been killed in any of the arson attacks we have seen in the last six months. I regret to say, however, that if we continue to see arson attacks in this country, then it is only a matter of time before a person loses his or her life as a result of such an arson attack. It is for this reason that we impose such a serious sentence on those convicted of arson.

I also know that An Garda Síochána will be taking such arson attacks extremely seriously. Some Members of the House have expressed concern that there have not been any convictions yet in respect of the offence of arson. The Garda, however, needs to be given time. We have seen the force operate very effectively in respect of other serious criminal issues that blighted this country over the years. It was also highly successful in its investigations and in securing convictions before the courts. We are also aware that the reason these arson attacks are taking place is because misguided individuals believe that if they set fire to a building, they will be able to ensure it is not used for accommodation for those seeking international protection. It is extremely important that we also emphasise, though, that throughout this country and in the constituencies of every Member of this House many accommodation centres have been initiated where there have been no attacks and no complaints. TDs and individuals have accepted people into their communities and have not engaged in any threatening or violent acts against the properties they live in. It is also important to point out that even though there are people who protest against the policy of the State in seeking to provide accommodation to those seeking international protection in their areas, the vast majority of those people would completely condemn any arson attacks. In my constituency, a series of accommodation centres is being used for the purpose of providing accommodation for those seeking international protection. The overwhelming majority of them have been accepted and there have been no issues in respect to them. There was, however, one isolated arson attack in respect of an accommodation centre in my constituency. I can guarantee, however, that the vast majority of people in the community where that arson attack took place did not support the act of violence that was perpetrated on the property.

It is also important that we talk about the issue of immigration. Historically, we have not been used to the whole prospect and action of immigration. The population of Ireland declined consistently and repeatedly after the Famine. It is sometimes forgotten that on this island, prior to 1841, there was a population of approximately 8 million people. The population of the island today is about 7.2 million people. Consistently since the Famine, though, and up until the end of the 20th century, there was an ongoing decline in our population. We have really only encountered immigration into this country from the end of the last century and over the past 25 years. My own view is that it has been an extremely positive experience for Ireland in terms of accepting people in. Anyone who has been involved in sport or who has seen young people playing sport can see the wealth of opportunity and of cultural enrichment gained as a result of people from different backgrounds coming into Ireland and growing up here. Although they are from different ethnic backgrounds, they endorse and become a part of Ireland's culture and heritage.

We have dealt with this aspect extremely well over the last 25 years. In many respects, though, I suppose what has been remarkable is that there has not been a debate on or an issue with immigration over the past 25 years. We should be honest, though, and recognise the reason this has been seen in opinion polls to have become an issue of concern for the public in the past two years or so.

The reason is fairly clear and that is the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Over the past two years, we have extremely compassionately and generously accepted into Ireland approximately 105,000 Ukrainian refugees who are fleeing the war. The European Union decided that they would be granted temporary protection. I agree with that and Ireland agreed with that. However, obviously that number coming into Ireland puts huge pressure on our accommodation resources. Anyone who suggests otherwise is simply not facing facts. It is because we have seen such large numbers coming in over the past two years that concern has become heightened about the issue.

In 2019, prior to the Covid pandemic, the number of people seeking international protection was in the region of 3,500 to 4,000. Last year, in 2023, approximately 13,500 people sought international protection. Based on the numbers that we have seen already this year, it appears that those numbers will be exceeded. We need to recognise that if the numbers are going to continue at approximately 15,000 or 20,000 people coming in seeking international protection each year, we will find it extremely difficult to provide the accommodation and the shelter to which they are entitled. We need to think what we should do to try to respond to that. In fairness, the Government has put extraordinary resources into the international protection process. That is having the effect of expediting the process.

However, as Deputy Flaherty mentioned earlier, we also need to look again at the provisions that we are entitled to invoke as a result of Article 38 of the recast directive on international protection. That article was transposed into Irish law under section 72 and it allows us to designate countries as being safe countries. If a country is designated as safe country, it does not mean that an individual who comes in here applying for international protection from that country is immediately refused. Their application is considered but the categorisation and designation of the country as being a safe country is a factor that expedites the process. We need to ensure that we can expedite the process of international protection applications particularly since the numbers are growing so considerably. We need to be clear that the persons who are losing out as a result of the process not being expedited are the persons who at the end of the process are entitled to claim international protection. Therefore, it is to their benefit that this is being done. I am sure the Minister will also be aware that the designation countries as safe countries can and does result in a reduction in the number of applications coming from those countries. That is a factor we need to look at.

We are very compassionate people. There is obviously racism in every country but racism in Ireland is at a low level. I do not believe that the vast majority of Irish people are in any way racist towards persons coming into this country. We have seen it for the past 25 years with people coming from all around the world. That is why I repeat again that the obvious reason it has risen up in our issues of concern as assessed in polling is because the numbers have become very considerable.

We also need to reflect on our own history in this matter. We have a history of travelling around the world and making a great contribution to other countries. We faced terrible persecution when we went abroad. I recently had an opportunity to read the reports from Liverpool newspapers of the tens of thousands of Irish people who migrated from Ireland to Liverpool after the Famine. In the 1850s, there was virulent anti-Irish feeling in Liverpool, which was extraordinary, particularly since the Irish people were coming from part of the same country as Liverpool as it was at the time.

There are also opportunities for us. The numbers coming in as a result of the war have made it extremely difficult for us to provide the necessary accommodation. Ultimately however, we will need to recognise that Ireland is a very attractive country for people. People fleeing persecution will obviously pick a country that is attractive to them. Ireland is attractive because we have such a strong economy and a welcoming population. We need to recognise that as the years progress will need to ensure that we have State-provided accommodation that can provide short-term shelter for persons seeking international protection. It is our obligation to do so. There is something unsettling and inconsistent about going around different areas of the country, trying to identify accommodation that can be used for the purpose of providing shelter for those seeking international protection. It is also unfair in local towns if the only hotel or a building that is providing an essential service is removed from the town as a result of providing accommodation pursuant to an international protection obligation.

This is not easy. As a Government TD, I have no difficulty in accepting we are finding it difficult to cope with providing accommodation for the numbers coming in. We need to look at other mechanisms to expedite the process so that we can reduce the numbers applying. I do not envy the Minister's task but it is our duty to put forwards as suggestions here.

The one thing we should recognise as not acceptable is people's use of violence to advance their political objective. People in this country are perfectly entitled to protest against State decisions. They are perfectly entitled to object to Government decisions. We have vigorous debates in the Houses of the Oireachtas. People are perfectly entitled to oppose everything Government is doing. However, they cannot break the law to advance their political objective. They cannot use violence to achieve their political objectives or to prevent another political objective from being achieved. In Ireland in the late 20th century, we saw how using violence to achieve objectives is fruitless. I appeal to people who are misguided and who think it is appropriate to engage in acts of arson to achieve some short-term shortsighted political objective not to do so. It is anti-democratic and also a serious breach of the criminal law and they could end up going to prison for life.

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