Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

On Deputy Durkan's question, we will liaise with industry in terms of our regional skills forums. This is the mechanism that has been looked at by other countries with a degree of interest. We have, in every region in Ireland, a regional skills forum. They bring together the colleges, ETBs, universities and employers in the region to look at what is needed in the south west or Dublin, for example, in skills provision. That is working very well and we need to continue to do that. I was determined, when my Department was created, that it would not just be another Department of Education but a Department of education and skills in accessing and working with industry on the development and co-creation of programmes.

On Deputy Gould's point, I would be happy to look at that specific issue because he is right on this. At the heart of what we are trying to do, which I know the Deputy and his party support, through our National Tertiary Office, is provide people with another opportunity to get into university. Up until now it has been exactly as the Deputy says; if you do not get the points or for whatever other reason, you can start in further education. You could do well and you may or may not get to progress into the university. The Deputy is right that it is a lotto system. What we have done with the tertiary degree is that you are guaranteed, if you start in further education, that once you meet the necessary standard in the exams you will continue seamlessly into the university.

We have only rolled this out since last September. We have 23 degree programmes where we are providing it and we have written to every university in Ireland, including UCC, inviting them to get on board and to come forward with more programmes. Perhaps this is an area where the ETB and UCC would be interested in developing a programme. I can talk with them about that. We intend to double the number of what we call tertiary degree programmes, degrees outside the CAO, from this September. It is an important issue; we are losing too many good people, sometimes to other jurisdictions, because they find they cannot get the degree place here. There have to be other ways.

The CAO will work for lots of people and the leaving certificate will work for lots of people, but there are other people who would make really good PE teachers, nurses or scientists and they need another pathway, so on this one I agree with the Deputy.

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