Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Cathaoirleach of the finance committee, Deputy McGuinness, for his work and for the work of the committee on the report on banking. The report predates my time on the committee but I want to indicate my support for the general assessment and the recommendations in the report. The report is rightly critical of the banking sector for this historic damage to the economy and for its ongoing treatment of customers.

A lot has happened since the hearings were held and the report was produced. The report warned that the European Central Bank interest rate would continue to rise in response to inflation, something that was widely predicted. It was predicted by everyone except this Government. The Government sold huge amounts of shares in the banks that the State held shares in since the bailout. It decided to sell right before the banks would benefit hugely from the interest rate increases. In autumn of last year the State made a number of large sales of shares in banks. In September 2022 the State sold shares in Bank of Ireland to the value of €841 million, for an average of €6.17 per share. The Bank of Ireland share prices have since risen to almost €9 today. Similarly, a large sale of AIB State shares happened in November last year and we have since seen a substantial increase in share prices there as well.

Share prices are driven by rising demand. When many investors were looking to get into banking, the Irish Government was going in the opposite direction. With inflation running at above 8% at the time, and everyone expecting ECB interest rates to rise, it is not evident that at that stage the banking profitability was likely to increase. If the State still held those shares from those two sales last autumn, they would be worth more than 50% more today. The State missed out on hundreds of millions of euro because it did not have the foresight to see this, as a result of a Fine Gael belief that the State should take a more hands-off approach to our banks. With everyone expecting interest rates to rise, the report rightly expresses concern that if such increases are passed on to customers by increasing borrowing rates, it will bring further pressure to individuals and businesses during the ongoing cost-of-living crisis.

Many households have been pushed to the pins of their collars by the interest rate rises on mortgages. We have seen the Government U-turn on the idea of mortgage interest relief and that is to be welcomed. It will provide a limited degree of breathing space to many households. However, as is often the case when the Government adopts Sinn Féin policies, there is an issue with implementation. I really find it concerning that there are so many - about 127,000 mortgage holders - who have mortgages of less than €80,000. There was no reason whatsoever to have an arbitrary figure or cut-off like that. Many of the people I know, who could only afford smaller mortgages in the first instance, are now caught in that trap where they have to find hundreds of euro extra every month to be able to meet the mortgage payments. I am talking about lone parents and people who are struggling with the cost-of-living crisis as it is. It hits those who are poorest.

We have been left with a lack of competition in the banking market. In the absence of competition we need tight regulation. We need a Government that is willing to hold banks to account. We had the shocking situation of a Minister telling Irish citizens to move their money into accounts in other EU countries to get better interest rates. Section 6 of the report addresses the bank remuneration policy, noting that public trust in banking remains to be restored, and recommends that the current restrictions on banking remuneration remain in place.

This report, produced by a committee made up of different parties, and even a majority of Government TDs, have called for a cap on banker's pay, but bonuses remain in place. Despite that, at the end of 2022 the Government moved to relax salary caps and increase bonus payments for banking executives. This was at a time when banks were making record profits, not from some innovation or great management but from the jacking-up of interest rates. This Government decided to ignore the finance and public expenditure committee and reward bankers for bad behaviour. They squeezed mortgage holders and did not pass on higher interest rates to savers. For that the Government thought they should be rewarded.

I know Deputy McGuinness has talked about the vulture funds and the fact that they will not come before the finance committee. That is disgraceful. We have had many witnesses before the committee but not the vulture funds, which are charging up to 10% extra for mortgages that were sold off, many of which should never have been sold off in the first place because they did not even fit the criteria of those we said would be sold on. Now they will not come before the committee. What are they hiding from? People do not even know where the deeds of their houses are, who they are held with or who the end person on their mortgages is. It is a disgraceful situation. The reason they do not do that is they have the red carpet rolled out for them in other areas of Government. They do not need to come before the committee to be held accountable and that has to change. The first function of Government is to protect its citizens. How can we say that we are protecting the citizens of this country when we have thousands of mortgage holders who are struggling to pay their mortgages and when those who hold their mortgages will not even come before an Oireachtas committee?

When we talk about the vulnerability of traditional banking services, it is only a few hours ago since I spoke to a woman who I thought put it very well. She described how she was in the bank the other day. The person before her in the queue was an elderly man who was trying to find out about his own money and financial situation within the bank. I am sure that money was very hard earned. He could not get to speak to a human being. He kept being pushed towards the machine. Now, I do not blame the people because we have fantastic people working on the ground within these banks. However, they are instructed to point people towards the machines so that the banks can then appear before us in the finance committee and say that people's behaviours have changed. I welcome the digitisation of banking, but we are leaving people behind. We are socially excluding people who are just trying to get somebody and speak to a human being. That woman described to me the fear on that man's face and the relief when she stood up for him and said it was not right, that the man wanted to speak to somebody. In in the end, they got somebody to speak to him, but this is happening all over the country on the pretence that behaviours have changed. Behaviours have been forced to change, but people who do not have broadband and who are excluded because of digital literacy are vulnerable in all kinds of ways. They are not able to access their own money and they are also subject to other people taking control of their finances. It is absolutely not right in that situation, never mind the number of branches that have been closed as it is leaving so many towns without banks.

Even here in the Oireachtas, we do not have a cash point. The cash point was taken out. There are many things I might disagree with Deputy Durkan about, but he keeps raising this in the finance committee and he is absolutely right. For any of us who want to take out some money during the day, we have to go out and try to find a machine that is working and then come back again. We all know what is happening on the streets and the vulnerabilities there if people have to go out in the dark night seeking to access their own money.

In the meantime, the banks are projected to make over €5 billion profit this year. My question to the banks is how much is enough. Is it €5.5 billion, €6 billion, €10 billion or €20 billion?How much more do they need? There is an absolute disregard for people who bailed out these banks and we get the answer that money was paid back. I refer to the suffering of the people and services that were withdrawn, many of them in very vulnerable communities, to prop up the banks and nationalise the debt of the banks at the time. We are suffering the consequences of that now in our towns and on our streets right across this country. Talk about selective amnesia. They forget how they were so dependent on the Irish people and how people were good enough to tolerate, or had to tolerate, what they presented to them in that situation.

I agree with the Minister of State about the credit unions. Absolutely, the credit unions need to be supported. I am glad to see changes there because I absolutely have faith and confidence in the services the credit unions are delivering. Many of the people who are involved in credit unions across this country are volunteers. I do not know where many of us would be if it were not for credit unions.

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