John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Democracy is all we have and the best model in operation is the one we have. Whether we like it, political parties have derailed democracy to a degree. They have taken charge of it. What we have now is a directed democracy. Parliamentary parties of one kind or another in the House - I can certainly speak for my own – tend to put a straitjacket on each of the Members to ensure there is very little debate. When I was first elected, parliamentary parties in the Chamber would all discuss legislation in detail. We would recommend change and doing things differently. We would perhaps introduce amendments. We felt we were part of the system. We have completely drifted from that position.

Perhaps that is because of the European Union. I am in favour of the European Union, but that is not to say that we should not challenge it. We should challenge it. There are too many directives and pieces of legislation to be transposed into Irish legislation and so on without the usual scrutiny. That is the issue. We get all sorts of things happening. Politically exposed persons have a negative impact on politics in Ireland and are not doing the job they are actually supposed to do. We cannot change that because the Government has accepted it from the European Union. Likewise, SIPO was put in place but was not listened to. It then brings about rules that are hard to live with because they do not make sense and it does not listen to us.

There is a need to challenge and be challenging. We need to challenge the system and examine whether it is good or bad for the country we serve. We need to not be afraid to put forward what we believe are the relevant questions. Local government, for example, does not function in the way it should. Members do not have the power that they expected to have before they were elected. County managers and CCMA have far too much power to direct and influence what is going on. They will fill seven potholes for you, but then get a big ask from you. That is wrong.

The dwindling numbers who vote believe in democracy and that local councils should be able to fulfil the remit of local government, but they do not. We do not allow them to do it in this House. We have presented the type of restructuring that is required to make every single local authority function in a way that is answerable, through elected members, to the general public. That creates a lot of cynicism. People see through what is going on. They want to see a change.

I have never seen such a hunger for change in how we do our business as I have seen over the past few years. Yet, the Government and civil servants seem to want to ignore that. Let us be honest about it. I see a script from a Minister that was written by a civil servant. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, might agree with what he is doing here, but he is doing what the commission told him to do simply because in the past politicians in the House were not great about redrawing constituency boundaries and did it in their own favour. That is not what they were elected to do at that time. That was not democracy. The commission might be part of democracy, but the real democratic process is in here and this is where we should challenge the commission or any other State agency.

I heard Ms Justice Baker say that she had sleepless nights over the decision that was made around in my constituency, Kilkenny. Who in the name of God would think it is okay to put in a big chunk of north Kilkenny into Tipperary when they cannot stand us and we cannot stand them on the hurling field? There is huge attachment to parish and community. I believe in the integrity of the county. It should be protected at all costs. It was a ridiculous decision and one that the House should not feel obliged to adopt.

We have agreed in principle that we will accept what comes from the commission, but where there is something as blatantly obvious as that it should not happen. We are trying to encourage people to vote. All I hear in that part of north Kilkenny is people saying that they will not vote at all. That is sad. I would like to see more done about Members here having a voice. We do not want to gerrymander, but when common sense approaches are brought to the matter being debated we should listen to them. The decision in north Kilkenny is the wrong one.

In terms of local government versus this Parliament, we would not need 174 Deputies if local government worked efficiently and well in the way we expect it to, but it does not and we do not allow it to. In fact, we do not even allow this Dáil to function in the way it could or should. We do the best we can. The Ceann Comhairle has been very good in the context of giving Members the opportunity to make representations and expand in the course of debate on matters that may not be tightly within the Bill or topic under discussion. That has to be done. I would like to see that change.

I am surprised that the Commission did not take the opportunity to address all of the issues that were built in up to then in the make up of constituencies and come back with a more radical response to the make up of the next Dáil and the number of Deputies. We will go along with what is proposed, but that goes to show you the level of democracy that is in this place. We are afraid of ourselves in case we do something wrong. We should look at the commission's report, and any report that comes before us, and not be afraid to amend it if it is in the interests of the people that we represent and, in this case, if it is in the interests of democracy, because that is all we have.

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