Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

This motion is very important. I thank Deputy Duncan Smith and my other Labour Party colleagues for bringing it forward. I am speaking about this because I have elderly parents and my elderly uncle passed away recently. This is very personal to me and is related to my work because I deal with it all the time. I will make three points to the Ministers of State that all fall into one another.

Demographics in Ireland are changing substantially. We will have far more people over the age of 65 in the coming years. This number is growing exponentially. I can stand here and say that I do not believe there is a hope in hell of the statutory home care scheme that was promised in the programme for Government being implemented by this Government. We are approximately a year away from a general election. This is a failure. It would have been a great legacy for the Government and I would encourage it to do it but I do not think it will happen.

The second issue involves the recruitment and retention of staff. This is the most important issue Deputy Nash spoke about. The reason 500 people are waiting to be discharged from hospital is people will not work in this sector because they are not being paid properly. We need a JLC and an ERO that sets the rate of pay, travel expenses, travel time and the minimum number of hours per hour. Then there will be people will work in this sector because it will suit them. Dare I say it, many women want to do it but also many men want to do it and we need more men given people's requirements.

When the HSE is paying €16 per hour, €13.10 is the floor in the private sector and people do not get the same allowances, is it any wonder all these workers want to end up working for the HSE? This is where the recruitment ban is a disgrace. What is wrong with these workers wanting to end up working for the HSE? The bit people fail to see here is that not alone is this the best for our elderly people, it is the best for our pocket. This is like an accordion. The longer people can be kept at home, the longer they can be kept out of nursing homes and the longer they can be kept from going from nursing homes into acute care. Every step up is far more expensive for the Irish taxpayer but also the best solution is for people to stay at home for as long as possible. This is what we should be facilitating. Unfortunately, unless we deal with pay, working conditions and payments for allowances, we will never be able to deal with this.

The Minister of State will be a failure in this position if she cannot deal with this. This is the most important issue she must deal with. If she cannot honour what is in the programme for Government, for the love of God she should at least deal with the JLC and ensure people are paid enough because if they are paid enough, what happens? They will work. We will have people who will work in this sector.

It is the most important thing to unlock this situation where so many people are looking for hours. I know of a couple who have been allocated 24 hours but are getting eight. I know of another person aged 95 who is entitled to more than 20 hours but is only getting six. The HSE will beg, borrow and steal for them but it cannot get people. What is not said in this Chamber is that many people are paying privately because it is the only way they will get some help for their loved ones.

An issue that has not been brought up is the reason so many people are stuck in limbo, costing the taxpayer so much and taking up acute beds. The discharge policy about which Bernard Gloster spoke earlier this week is concerning to a degree but I can understand it to a degree.

12 o’clock

What is going on in this country is a disgrace. I will provide some figures that have never been stated previously. Between 2012 and 2021, in 15 of our 24 acute hospitals, 786 people spent more than a year in an acute setting. In some cases, the stay was multiples of that. I do not have the figures for the other nine hospitals because they came to less than five each but we are probably approaching 1,000 people spending more than a year in hospital because there was no step-down facility, nursing home or facility in the community to deal with them. Is that not an indictment of where we are going? With the country's demographic profile, that number will only multiply. It is shambolic and disgraceful. These people were stuck in an acute setting. In St. James's Hospital, there were 105 such cases. There were 134 in St. Vincent's, 74 in the Mater, 93 in Beaumont, only ten in Waterford and 44 in Galway. These figures relate to people who were in an acute setting for more than a year because they could not get out. Is it not an indictment of our country that people are left to rot in acute settings because they cannot get out? I have to reveal those figures to the House. I am sure the Minister of State is aware of these data. If she is not, it is even more worrying. This taking away of people's consent and this warehousing of people has to stop. It is not humane and it is completely wrong.

This is one of the most important motions we will bring forward in this Dáil. We need a joint labour committee and we need to improve the pay of workers. We need the statutory scheme the Minister of State and her Government have promised. Finally, we need a process whereby people are treated with dignity and not locked into acute settings for years on years on years.

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