Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I very much regret that I had to leave briefly to attend to other business but I am very glad to have heard a good number of Deputies from the Opposition and Government benches. I very much appreciate what I sense is their support for this Bill. While recognising that it is a very speedy process, where we were not able to have pre-legislative scrutiny on the Bill, I believe the public would prefer us to be quick here so that we have a large number of households getting the first of the credits for the Christmas period.

I will respond to the various comments and points raised. One of these is that it is a lower support of €150 rather than the €200 in last year's three payments. That is done on a scientific basis in the assessment of where we are looking to close the gap to reflect the current situation, which is still one of historically high prices, but where we have seen price reductions of between 10% and 30% from some of the main operators in recent months. Subject to what goes on in the Middle East, Russia and Ukraine, I hope we can look forward to further reductions next year but it is still going to be high price environment. The price of gas today and the forward price of gas for the next number of months is still almost double the historic highs of the previous five, ten or 15 years.

These supports are appropriate and the analysis we have done shows they do protect and close that gap. There is a real benefit. I heard Deputy Sherlock asking whether we could look at a more targeted approach. That would be coming at the cost of us covering every family's needs and there are many families who may be caught and may not be beneficiaries of the social welfare increases we are providing at the same time. Ostensibly, they may look like they are in a reasonable category, but due to a variety of different circumstances, they may have real difficulty in paying their bills. Therefore, the Government's call was that it was appropriate to set this level of support alongside the very significant introduction of once-off and other social welfare increases. In terms of the budget overall, the most important graph we look at on every budget day is that with regard to who benefits most and this year it was again those on lowest incomes.

I accept Deputy O'Rourke's point that it would have been nice had we introduced a mechanism where vacant homes were not charged but we were not able to do that. We have to be upfront and honest about that. It required a good deal of work by my Department and I want to thank it for the work it has done. The delivery of, and this use of credits and their design, came from our Department. It was developed and delivered by our Department and I commend it on the work it has done. It looks simple, and some of the benefits of this approach have a certain simplicity, but it actually takes a great deal of co-ordination and legal consideration with regard to the use of the ESB networks and the use of the meters to make this work. It took that first iteration for us to be able to come back with confidence and to take this second approach which is more targeted.

On the representations made by Deputy O'Dowd with regard to full-time mobile home park residents and the fact that many could not receive payments under either scheme, I understand many of these residents have experienced difficulty. Our officials met with Deputy O'Dowd to discuss the matter and we are investigating the matter further.

Last year the issue of measures for Travellers were set out, specifically payments made to households who could not receive the payment under scheme I or II as a result of their MPRN being held by the local authority on a shared site. Payments were backdated to provide support which was not received under scheme I or II. Given the successful operation of these schemes, these measures will be introduced again. We have to ensure that all families, in particular families from the Traveller community, are able to avail of these schemes. Payments will be made to Traveller households on local authority sites and it is estimated that the bill for that will be some €500,000, which should be sufficient to cover any possible increase in the number of households, depending on the level of the electricity credit support schemes provided for in 2023 and 2024.

I completely accept this is not an easy time for energy bills and we all understand how difficult it is for households around the country. This Government has responded. Any assessment of international comparisons with regard to the supports which have been provided indicate that we have been as generous as we could be. This is the public's money we are using here.

It is not just the provision of credit payments. There has also been an ongoing engagement with the supply companies to ensure they are responding quickly to households' needs. We have seen bodies like the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, change the rules so we are not seeing disconnections in the coldest days in winter. We have worked very closely with the Money Advice & Budgeting Service, MABS, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and with other organisations to help households in difficulty. There are significant other funding arrangements to ensure households in particular difficulties are able to cope. We are not leaving anyone in the cold or without power and light. It is essential that we get through a potentially cold winter with older people and more vulnerable people not putting themselves in any health harm or in other difficult circumstances.

There are a whole range of other backstop measures with further social welfare provisions that will be applied, if there are any households in particular difficulty. It is that suite of measures and series of supports, one complementing the other, that will help people through this difficult period, including a significant ongoing increase in the retrofitting of buildings, the provision of solar panels, and the switch away from what is the core of this problem, which is our dependence on fossil fuels, in particular, imported gas which is so expensive.

I very much appreciate the chance to have had a Second Stage debate.

I understand we are to go on to Committee and Remaining Stages due to the time issues in this Bill. I look forward to engaging with the Deputies on that.

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