Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Murnane O'Connor for raising this matter. I am taking this Topical Issue matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe. What Deputy Murnane O'Connor is saying resonates with everything that has been said in the debate here for the past two hours or so. The issues are very serious which is why we had a full and extensive debate on it here. We are all conscious of the notice for strike action next Tuesday. Something like that always helps to concentrate the mind and I want to say before I go any further that the views being expressed in the debate here earlier, and by Deputy Murnane O'Connor here now, will be personally conveyed to the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, by me, and that this further debate is now taking place here in the Dáil as we conclude business today.

I note the Deputy is asking about the retention of workers in section 39 organisations and I would like to make a general comment on the matter of retention of staff. The economy is performing incredibly well under the present Government. Unemployment is at a record low level. Of course, in such a situation, it gives rise to a retention challenge across all sectors in the current climate of full employment. Every employer in the country will tell you that they have a problem recruiting and retaining staff as people have more opportunities in a strong economy than they would otherwise have.

I will now turn to the issue of the section 39 agencies issue. Section 39 of Health Act 2004 allows for private sector organisations to provide services for members of the public. These are known colloquially as section 39 organisations. I would add that the workers concerned in these organisations are not public servants but are employees of private organisations. Their legal employment relationship is with the private sector employer. Such matters are primarily for the individual employers and employees as part of that relationship.

The section 39 organisations receive grant funding from Tusla and the HSE, provided through the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and the Department of Health. This funding is used to service payroll and other organisational costs. The funding for section 39 organisations has increased considerably in recent years and is now in excess of €1 .6 billion, having increased by over 60% since 2018. This demonstrates this Government’s commitment to service delivery in this sector.

During most of that time, since 2018 to 2021, or thereabouts, there was little or no inflation yet over that period there was a 60% increase in funding to those organisations. That has to be acknowledged and is where most of these negotiations must take place. The process of engagement with these organisations in recent years has been very extensive. In 2018 and in 2020 there was engagement with the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and in recent months, in respect of various groups in the community and voluntary sector, an agreement was reached on a 5% settlement for community employment scheme workers in March. Agreed processes were put in place to address pay rates for section 39 workers. That has been agreed in many places. I understand that 60% of qualifying organisations took part in these processes and that pay increases were provided for in stages following an audit and verification exercise.

A range of engagements have taken place under the auspices of the Workplace Relations Commission. These processes led to this offer of 5%, as the Deputy has already indicated. It was disappointing that this offer was not put to these organisation's own employees for a vote. No vote was given to the employees and it would have been useful if they had a vote because some of this pay increase was also being backdated. I understand that the union, within its rights, chose not to give its members a vote in this situation. I encourage all parties to go back to the Workplace Relations Commission urgently and that the strike be deferred, as called for by the Deputy.

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