Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

This is a timely motion, as we see the devastating effects of a scandal within a commercial State-sponsored body. I am fairly sure I do not have to name it, as I think everyone will realise I am talking about RTÉ. I do not want to prejudice the work of the relevant committees or wherever else this has to go. I will quote from the briefing note, which states the proposal "will impose an obligation on Member States to adopt effective rules on open access to information of public interest, the disclosure and management of conflicts of interests in the public sector, the disclosure and verification of assets of public officials, and regulating the interaction between the private and the public sector". This seems highly applicable in the case of RTÉ and other similar scandals. The sprawling and inconsistent governance arrangements of the public service, public sector, State and semi-State organisations, which we are seeing play out in real time, does not aid accountability. These contradictions are now being exposed in the case of RTÉ and in respect of the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board. A 2022 Transparency International Ireland survey of public bodies found that while many were taking important steps towards combating the risks of corruption, bodies such as the Local Government Management Agency, LGMA, and An Bord Pleanála could do much more.

Those of us who are old enough may remember a Fine Gael policy document from 2011, which promised a massive reform and rationalisation of the public sector. Perhaps it will take another 12 years of the party being in government to give it sufficient time to act.

The briefing note we all received also states, "The urgency of the situation is clear from the fact that the Dáil will be rising on 13 July and the opt-in process has to be complete in advance of this." I accept that it took a while to form a Government at the start of the lifetime of this Dáil. Moreover, the Attorney General needs to be consulted and there are a number of other concerns but there does seem to be a problem with EU proposals related to white-collar crime being delayed, in some cases long enough that a European Court of Justice, ECJ, referral becomes a concern. We cannot afford to see this sort of lackadaisical attitude towards white-collar crime, as it has devastating effects on ordinary people's livelihoods, whether through anti-competitive practices or outright fraud and grift.

According to the International Monetary Fund, IMF, $2.6 trillion, or 5% of global GDP, is lost to corruption annually around the world. For this State, that figure would be in the order of €25 billion every year. Although we are more than likely at the lower end of the scale globally, every penny lost is one less that can be spent on schools or hospitals. White-collar crime is also the handmaiden of organised crime. Dirty money needs to be cleaned and this cannot be done without money laundering through so called "legitimate" institutions. This is where the white-collar world meets the world of the street dealer and debt enforcer.

Where this occurs, we inevitably see bribery of foreign officials and other such issues occur. For instance, in December 2022, Danske Bank pleaded guilty and agreed to a $2 billion fine in a case from the United States Department of Justice. This was only revealed after a whistleblower came forward to state that Danske Bank's anti-money laundering procedures were not sufficient, despite its law firm asserting that they were. It is interesting that Irish law now, after the implications of a court case, cannot impose strict liability on corporate bodies. There is almost a template wording used in several new items of legislation being introduced that affect bodies corporate states stating that it is a defence to show that proper procedures were put in place to combat the likelihood of an offence taking place. It will be interesting to see how this works out in practice. Would Danske Bank have been found guilty if proceedings were taken under Irish law? It seems unlikely.

To its credit, the Government has made some progress in combating white-collar crime. However, the pressure is now such that the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, in a letter to the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, has complained that it is not sufficiently resourced to tackle such cases. These cases are of course long and complex, and usually defence counsels are the best that money can buy. We cannot afford to allow the State to suffer from an inequality of arms. I ask the Minister of State to outline the position on how we resource the DPP in this regard.

The proposal itself seems positive. There are three major areas, as the Minister of State has outlined. The first is preventing corruption and building a culture of integrity, and contains the aforementioned obligation on member states with regard to conflicts of interest and so on. We have a culture of "cute hoorism", if I can use that term, whereby people are rewarded rather than condemned after getting away with something. It does not matter what you do as long as you do not get caught. That seems to be changing and obligations around awareness-raising are very important.

The second area is to obligate member states to have one legal Act for all corruption offences and sanctions. This is incredibly important, as current legislation is set out in a sprawling manner, across multiple Acts. A strengthening and consolidation is required and given that the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement has been reformed into the Corporate Enforcement Authority, we should see some areas where the law needs to be changed.

The final area is on ensuring effective investigations and prosecution of corruption. The DPP, the Garda and the enforcement authority are clearly the important bodies here, but there may be room for other entities to be introduced to assist, especially with specialist expertise.

To cut it short: we support these proposals. I am very grateful for the opportunity to discuss this matter. I think there will be a great deal of agreement across the House. Given the week that we have had, and some of the previous stories that have been dealt with in this particular domain, I believe it is of the utmost importance that we deal with white-collar crime and corruption, and that we leave as little room as possible for them to exist. We have good governance and we have the means of doing the business that needs to be done.

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