Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I ask for some latitude for what I am about to say, because I will not be speaking strictly to the amendments. I seek some clarifications with respect to legislation at this juncture, with the permission of the Chair. I do not want to go over the arguments that we made on Second Stage and Committee Stage. The people who are watching these proceedings and who continue to monitor them will see the record of the House. They will parse and interpret the contributions that have been made by us on this side of the House. In that context, it seemed to me that the Government’s unwillingness to accept Opposition amendments on Committee Stage in the Dáil continued into the Seanad proceedings. We are, therefore, still left with quite a number of issues which have been articulated already. These are issues that have not been dealt with in the scheme, such as the six-month period, the role of pharmaceutical companies and the issues surrounding jurisprudence or litigation in respect of those people who sign up for the scheme. I feel strongly that these are issues that this State will be revisiting again. I make that humble prediction now.

I wish to speak on behalf of those people who are now, even though we have not completed the legislation, engaging with legal practices. They will have started to make queries with legal practices with respect to this scheme. In one particular case, a gentleman contacted me in the last number of days. He is approaching this with a great degree of trepidation and nervousness. He has engaged a solicitors’ practice albeit on a very nascent and tentative basis. He is unclear about what his pathway will be. That will become clearer as the days move on, but the point I am making here is that legal practices are already moving firmly into this space in relation to the scheme. This is in advance of the scheme being operational, as I understand it. Could the Minister in his reply clarify - and this is an obvious question, but I want to get it on the record of the House - if the scheme is operational? Second, what message can he give to those practices that are now inviting people who express an interest in taking part in the scheme to come to them? What does the Minister see as their roles and responsibilities at this point in time? I ask this because I have a piece of correspondence here from the person who contacted me who wants to engage with this scheme. He has not committed to a legal firm just yet, but he has made initial contact with one. That firm is asking him questions like, “Do you have any documents that prove you were resident in this institution?”; “If you were a child in this institution, how long did you reside there?”; and “Where were you sent to after your time here?”. There are further questions such as, “If you were a mother in this institution, how long did you reside in the institution/home and did you leave with your child?”; “If you were a mother in this institution/home did you work outside of the institution/home while you resided there?”; and “Have you suffered from any psychiatric injuries or substance abuse problems since your time in this institution/home?”.

I am now trying to put myself in the position of the person who was in an institution. It does not matter where. He was born in a place, and he now wants to engage with this scheme, but the fear of God is in him because these questions are being asked of him by a law firm. I fear that we are increasing the level of stress on these people because the pathways for people who want to apply are as of yet unclear. They do not know how to engage. When firms are already coming into this space, the question arises as to whether that is appropriate at this stage. I genuinely do not know the answer to that question. What should I advise that person to do? What advice should any of us in this House give to people who are now coming to us and want to engage with this scheme? It is not yet up and running because we have not concluded the legislation. What should they do? What advice can I give to this person? I am very fearful about giving this person the wrong advice. The Minister can bet his bottom dollar that we will be the interlocutors for a good number of those 24,000 people. That is self-evident. I am sure they will come to us for advice. I just want to be on a sure footing.

I refer to section 37 - I thank the Chair again for his latitude - which states:

The Scheme may, in accordance with regulations under section 38, provide financial support to applicants to facilitate their— (a) seeking the assistance of a legal practitioner in providing an affidavit for the purposes of an application, and

(b) where relevant, availing of independent legal advice for the purpose of their decision to accept or reject an offer under Part 3.

In my conversations so far with that gentleman, he has asked me if his legal costs will be covered if he engages with this law firm at this juncture. He has asked if there will be financial assistance for that process or if he will potentially be paying that legal firm a portion of whatever award he may receive. To me - and I am sorry for revisiting that section again - the section is still not clear enough for the very many thousands of people who will start to engage with people like us and legal practitioners on this issue. There needs to be more clarity on that. That will be my first interaction on this debate and I thank the Chair for his latitude.

See this speech in context