Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

What about if we tried to fix the issue without legislation? The Deputy said he would like me to work with him on this issue. I am working on it all the time. The solution is actually without legislation. The solution involves two things. One is the infrastructure to try to prevent flooding in the first place. I cannot believe Deputy Bacik said we should build along the coast. Really? Should we be building along the coast and have the State insure that knowing it is a flood risk? We have to think this through in a way that is not contradictory. Of course we should not build in areas that we now know to be flood risks and to be increasing flood risks, and then require the State to be the insurer. We have to think this through logically.

This can be fixed, I hope, without legislation. I actually think the legislation would do more harm than good and I will tell the Deputy why. We are looking for more insurers to come into the market to provide competitive insurance in the broadest way possible, to cover as many sectors as possible at the most price-efficient way for consumers and for businesses. That is my objective. I have zero interest in how well the insurance industry does. I am quite happy it employs so many people in Ireland. That is a really good thing. I am happy we have such a big international insurance sector and that we are doing most of the insurance, for example, for different companies around Europe without really anybody knowing about it. Those are really good things that are happening from an employment perspective. I am not here to support the insurance industry's profit line. I am here to make sure people actually get insurance.

I am not sure we will maintain our operation or our service levels here if we introduce legislation that interferes with the commercial decision-making of insurance companies, or any other company. Instead of having two new insurance companies come in, when decisions are being made at a global level they would look at Ireland and say it will interfere in how the companies make risk assessments in a way that goes way beyond any other country and is in breach of EU law. Companies will say they do fine in France, Germany etc. I want to make sure we retain our existing insurers, that we get more in and that I then have the best capacity to say to them we have done all of this work, we have all of these maps and that there is absolutely no reason not to provide insurance in these different areas. I would rather have that conversation, than a conversation that reassures them we will not interfere in business decision-making. It is not a question of being able to fix it with technical amendments on Committee Stage; it is in breach of EU law. It is not constitutional. Those things just cannot be fixed. We can have a back and forth that looks at it, but the truth is it just cannot be fixed.

I am sorry to speak about Deputy Bacik when she is not here, but there is a contradiction when she said she was disappointed by the delay by the Government. What does that mean exactly? She said it three times, that it is further delaying tactics by the Government. I do not think the Bill will fix it. What will fix the issue is the infrastructure by the OPW, and the capacity to say that we operate in a commercial environment and we are changing the operating environment. We did it with motor insurance and premiums came down and I am doing my level best to make sure that does not drift, that it sticks and that I do not hear any excuses from insurance companies or solicitors or anybody else in relation to it. It is better for the people of Ireland that it sticks. We are changing the duty of care legislation so that there is zero excuse for any insurance company to come to me and tell me there is a culture of slips, trips and falls in Ireland that makes it too expensive to insure a business. That is what I am trying to do and it is the same with this issue.

We have a problem regarding flood insurance for a very small number of people. For those people it is the biggest problem and the risk that they have. However, it is a small portion of the market. I do not want insurance companies leaving because we make changes to the whole commercial and operating environment, with companies saying they were not so sure about Ireland anyway and were thinking of consolidating in eastern Europe or wherever it happens to be. I am not throwing that out as a threat. The Deputy and I have discussed this before. Ireland is a small market and I am not here to hold any insurers hand to make sure they stay or anything else. I just want to make sure we have the broadest possible insurance provision for the broadest number of people and that we fix the operating environment problems where they exist so that the insurance industry has no excuse not to provide cover in a cost-efficient way. It is important to recognise that 97% of all property insurance policies include flood cover, that 92% of properties with fixed flood defences have flood cover, that 72% with demountable flood defences have flood cover and 81% have a combination. The Deputy can do the maths; it is very clear.

A timed amendment is a way of saying that yes, we continue to be happy to discuss this because we are not in opposition here. I do not believe that legislation will solve this. I actually think it could make it worse. What I really would like to do is look at it in a really granular way, area by area, and to come to me with the difficulties. We will work with the OPW and fix them. Let me talk to the insurance companies and Insurance Ireland, area by area in a totally granular and realistic way and in a way that is very difficult to avoid the gaze of the State. We have done the work in providing a commercial environment for companies to operate here and will ask them why they are not doing it. That is my genuine view. It is not about being in opposition. It really is about just finding a solution.

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