Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour) | Oireachtas source

While we welcome the Bill, we should all accept that if it ever comes to a courtroom and is utilised by the criminal justice system to criminalise somebody who has groomed a child for criminal behaviour, it will just prove that we have all failed. If it ever comes to a point at which somebody gets a sentence on the basis of how he or she has groomed a child for involvement in criminal behaviour, we will have absolutely failed. We are failing at the moment. This issue is very complex, as has been outlined. Often, what happens in communities, as I am sure the Minister of State will know, is that in some families it can be very confusing for a young person when an older family relative - it could be a father, a mother, an uncle or an older brother or sister - asks the young person to do something and there is that conflict of loyalty within their head as to what they may know to be right or wrong, the messages they are getting from wider society and from their wider community and what their family are telling them. That is a very difficult thing for a young person to grapple with.

How have we got to this situation in this Republic where we have to enact legislation such as this? How have we come to a situation where certain young people or certain families feel so empowered to behave in this manner? How have we got to the situation where young people feel totally disenfranchised and dispirited by the mainstream economy they are asked to engage with and find power, influence and respect from criminal activity?

There are intergenerational reasons behind that. Traditionally, in certain areas in my part of the world, in Dublin, you did not get respect from the teacher, you did not get respect from the social worker, you did not get respect from the gardaí, you certainly did not get respect from the media and you probably did not get respect from politicians either. On that basis, you go and you find respect from somewhere that will give you respect, easy money, cars, jewellery and other trappings of influence and power. Also, sensing the fear that other people feel when you are around can be quite intoxicating. There is the drug-based intimidation that happens, and certain troubled families in certain communities enjoy that fear. They enjoy the sense of intimidation that people feel when they interact with them. Sometimes middle-class Ireland does not understand when they ask why those people do not just go to the Garda about these families, why they do not just inform on them, or why they do not just tell people about what is going on in their area. They know who the drug dealers are. They know what they are up to. Would you do that if they were living right beside you, and if you had to put up with the brick through the window or your kid being bullied because of the intervention you made? This is deeply difficult stuff to deal with.

Deputies Paul Donnelly and Ward referred to education. I always appreciate those sorts of contributions because this has to be wider than just a criminal justice response. We talk about education, which I always veer towards in these kinds of conversations because all of us know the true liberator from this type of life is education. It gives people so many more chances. What happens, however, if the school does not have the tools to deal with what you are being asked to deal with? There are schools that have engaged themselves in a campaign based in Ballymun, Tallaght and, in my constituency, Dublin 17. They are asking for a DEIS-plus model, whereby the Dublin 1 system of multidisciplinary teams, nurture rooms and teacher support services would be readily available to these schools. These are acutely disadvantaged schools that are dealing with many of the young people this legislation is designed to protect. They deal with them day in, day out. I spoke last week to a principal who told me that a basic intervention was needed for one particular child. The principal said to me, "But we have lost her since." How devastating is that for anybody in my position to hear from a principal who had asked for an intervention to be made for the child? It is three years on and it just did not happen, and he says to me, "We have lost her since."

There are other interventions the Minister could make. You are legally required in Ireland to be in school only between the years six and 16. Therefore, before the age of six or after the age of 16, there is no legal requirement to be in school, even if you are enrolled. Even if you have very problematic attendance issues, if your parents or those in charge of you clearly are not ensuring that you are in school every day, that is a clear indicator of neglect or issues within the family. Not every child who has an attendance issue is suffering from neglect, but many do. After the age of 16, their attendance patterns may become very problematic as well. There needs to be an intervention there such that if a child is enrolled in a school, it is an early indicator of a problem within the family when non-attendance at school becomes an issue, particularly at junior or senior infants age. If you are five years of age, just because you do not come under the remit of the Educational (Welfare) Act, surely the educational welfare officer can identify and interact with that family in an empowering way in order that we do not have to deal with a scenario of a family member being given a criminal sanction for engaging another family member in criminal activity.

My colleagues have mentioned the citizens' assembly on drugs. That is a very important discussion because a lot of this does come down to drugs. Let us be honest: that is where most the money is made. It is where most the power and influence comes from in communities. It is the illegal drug trade. It is from what people get their power and influence. In fairness to the Government, there were calls for the establishment of a citizens' assembly on drugs and the Government listened to those calls. I think there is a movement now for various interventions, not just the decriminalisation of the drug user, which would go a long way towards enabling gardaí to focus on the gangs and not the victims of drug use, but also issues around education, interventions and recovery.

However, with all this talk about elections and potentially elections at the end of this year or next year, I am worried that any finding that comes out of the citizens' assembly on drugs, which is historic in having that level of conversation happening with all that expert input, will not be able to be legislated for before the end of this Oireachtas. I am terrified of that. I see beside me Deputy McAuliffe, who has done fantastic work in this area in advocating for a change in our approach on this. If we do not have that opportunity now in this Oireachtas, I worry that we will not have the opportunity again because momentum is here now for real, substantive change.

Let us all accept that if we have to criminalise somebody for engaging a minor or a child in criminal behaviour, we have all failed because that has been allowed to happen. The education system and youth work are part of the solution, but we have to give them the resources and the tools. If there are 26 schools across Tallaght, Ballymun and Dublin 17 in my constituency all saying they need a DEIS-plus system, the Government should bend over backwards and say it will deliver it for them because it is listening to what they are saying, because it understands they know better than the Government knows about how to deal with young people and because no principal should ever have to look a politician in the eye again and say, "I have lost her." This is a primary school principal. The child is about nine years of age, I understand. Her life will be pretty long, and if we really have lost that child, I just worry about the type of influence she will have on herself and on others around her. If we have lost her, how many others are we losing and how many will we potentially lose because we do not listen to the principals who are advocating what they are advocating? I have said what I have said about the attendance patterns in school from six to 16 years of age. I brought in legislation through the Seanad previously to correct that.

The aim was that if you were enrolled in a school, you would come under the remit of the legislation. The then Minister accepted it and it passed through the Seanad. We need to examine it again and to do something about it.

My last point is on the Citizens' Assembly on Drugs Use. Many of us in this House, from all parties, have rowed in behind the Government on this. We have not made this a political football and have dealt with it in good faith because we believe that we all understand something has to change radically in this sphere. However, if recommendations emerge from the Citizens' Assembly and we do not act on them in the lifetime of the current Dáil and Seanad, we will never be forgiven. We should not be forgiven, because this is an historic opportunity. The Labour Party supports the Bill. I hope the Minister of State will take my contribution in good faith.

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