Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State has told us it is intended to include this in the general scheme of the sale of alcohol Bill. It could be an issue that gets lost in that context because there are planning issues with this and with good streetscapes. This was a worthwhile initiative during Covid and there is no doubt there is a public appetite for having outdoor seating for both restaurants and pubs. However, there are difficulties with it in real and practical senses. Neighbouring buildings lose visibility and the kind of structures on the streets are sometimes festooned in advertising. A great effort might have been made to have nice shop fronts and then these shop fronts are not visible by virtue of some of the structures that have been put in place.

It will be important that this is not just included in the laws on licensing. There has to be some engagement with the planning authorities on good design. Otherwise we will lose a lot of what we have done well and what we could continue to do well while at the same time trying to hold on to this new option for people. It can be seen in other jurisdictions across Europe. It is not just in warm countries but also in colder countries that their design of buildings accounts for a certain element of outdoor seating with an aspect of permanent buildings that go along with this.

I know the Department of Justice will deal with the regulation of this and I recall the confusion before the legislation was in place, when people did not know whether it was lawful. That is why the Bill was brought into place. For example, structures that have been in place for five years have the benefit of planning permission if there has not been a challenge to the structure being in place. It is important, therefore, that we engage early and across Departments because we often see a siloed approach where one thing works well but where it does not work well in tandem. There is a need to ensure there is some consultation on planning grounds and well in advance of this Bill being enacted or even brought in front of the House, because the drafting is only under way. It is hard to see where the sunset clause will fit in with the timescale that is proposed. I know it is down to the House but when is it intended to have that on the Order Paper? Does the Minister of State have any kind of a timeline for when that Bill might be enacted? We all know it takes time to go through both Houses.

We lost a lot of good public spaces as a consequence of some of the initiatives that had to be taken, with Temple Bar being a case in point. There used to be a good book stall and market there and that was lost because the square has a lot of buildings in place. Tourists and visitors to a city or town will say that no matter where you sit, it costs you money because we do not have a good balance of public versus commercial options for people, and some of this took up some of the public spaces. We have to consider this in the context of the public realm. Again, in other European countries, huge effort is put into what their towns and cities look like and where people can sit down without having to pay for a cup of coffee or whatever it is.

We have to avoid falling behind by virtue of the fact that we are trying to do something that is positive. We have to make sure the other aspects of it are considered and that it is not just about licensing or permits. It goes beyond that and I ask the Minister of State to stress that issue of whether there is any kind of relationship between the Department of Justice and the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government in this aspect. We will be missing an opportunity if we do not get good guidance and if it does not work in tandem.

See this speech in context