Charlie McConalogue (Donegal, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Let us say that in a supermarket in Ireland Irish meat could not be sold below a certain price. If I read it right, the Deputy's amendment is also saying that it cannot be bought below a certain price to be sold in Ireland. I think that is what the Deputy is saying although it is not quite clear. It also seems to be saying that a supermarket in Ireland or anybody in the contract chain in a factory could not buy it off a farmer below that price. That is what the Deputy is saying. However, only about 10% of the meat we produce in Ireland gets eaten here. Therefore, the Deputy is saying that meat can only be sold in Ireland at a certain price and that it can only be bought in Ireland at a certain price. However, somebody can come in from outside Ireland and buy it off a farmer or processor at a different price. Therefore, the rest, 90% of beef, can be bought at a different price. It would only be the Irish customers paying the higher prices, yet 90% of the meat could be bought from outside the country at a much lower price.

What happens along the Border? Deputy Carthy comes in here at different times talking to me about challenges around the Border. In Donegal or Monaghan it is bought at a certain price but Northern Ireland has different laws so it is bought at whatever the going rate might be, which would be more reflective of world market rates than what is being set in this instance. What will happen in the supermarkets of Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan or Louth? Where will they go to buy their meat then? The consumers will be paying a lot more money but farmers will only get that higher price for 10% of the meat they produce. That is the reality of what the Deputies are proposing.

The Deputies should be honest. They should not come in here and, without giving any examples, say that with the stroke of a pen, we can put in place legislation that will magically give farmers a set price and everybody will be happy ever after. That is selling a fallacy. Deputy McNamara says it happens in Spain but that is an entirely different scenario. For most of their products and for those where this would apply, they would not be self-sufficient. Rather, they would be producing for their domestic markets. Switzerland is an example of this. It has tight borders with high tariffs for foods coming in and it operates lots of similar rules to Europe but it has a separate market. Food prices are very high in Switzerland and the prices farmers get in Switzerland are very high but they are producing for a domestic market only and they have their borders closed. They can control that and it works there. Consumers pay high prices and farmers get high prices and nothing can get in without paying a big tariff. That is what works in Switzerland.

How many times have people said Ireland is a small country but we produce enough food for 40 million people around the world? Some 90% of what we produce gets exported. The Deputies are selling a myth and trying to make it sound as if, at the stroke of a pen, they can introduce a measure on Report Stage of a Bill, rather than delving into this for a long time on Committee Stage and during pre-legislative scrutiny, as many other Members have. They are saying that because this would be in legislation, that would make it a reality and, hey presto, we are doing something for farmers and we will solve all their problems with this legislation. That simply does not stack up. That is the reality and the challenge.

Given that the vast majority of our milk and beef is sold abroad, the price at which the market operates is determined by the prices we are getting in different parts of the world, whether it is Japan, the United States, other parts of Europe or Britain. Prices are determined by what we get there. We want to ensure we are putting in place an office that has as many tools and levers as possible to bring transparency to the supply chain so that we can see what is going on with the price we are getting abroad. The ultimate objective is not to create a situation where consumers end up paying way more than what anybody else does across the world but the farmers do not get to see the benefit of it because in beef, no matter what the price is set at here and no matter what our consumers are required to pay for it, that would only affect 10% of the product. The other 90% would be going to other parts of the world at the world price and farmers would not benefit but everybody would have a more expensive product in the process.

We should tease this matter out but I ask the Deputies not to sell a myth. The office I am seeking to put in place is historic in that we are placing on a statutory footing a legally independent office to try to make sure farmers get a fair deal and to do the maximum possible given that we are an exporting country.

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