Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis an Aire agus leis an Teachta a tháinig anseo inniu.As I said, I do not know whether the lack of participation by the whole Opposition is a sign of agreement but I will take it as such.

The Minister of State raised a number of valid issues. On the other hand, we must be cautious because the system will always state the problems but not the solutions. My belief is that there are two different roles, one for public servants and one for politicians. The public servant's role is to warn and be cautious and the politician's role is to drive things forward and one without the other does not work. On the face of it, this proposals involves many agencies but some of the agencies have very specific roles. It was mentioned, for example, that the director of the National Museum would not have any expertise in art. That is why it is possible under this Bill to consult with the National Gallery. That is where the art expertise come from. When it comes to historical documentation, the National Library has a place. The Bill uses the whole panoply of national institutions but my feeling is that what would happen is that a committee would be formed comprising all the national institutions which mainly come under the remit of one Minister, the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media. I expect that is how it would be pulled together.

The second matter we must watch is that the system is always concerned about innovative things, rocking the status quo and moving away from the things it is familiar with. We need to get a much greater sense of adventure and be brave. There is an absolute obligation to start with the earliest safe deposit boxes in order that the risk of litigation or of people coming forward is lowest and we will learn as we go along. Laws can always be changed.

Resources are often used as an argument for not doing things. This country has become more wealthy. The interesting thing in this Bill is that the resources are minor for the wealth that would be achieved. Imagine the museums that could be filled. Property and staff resources would be needed. The artefacts would not have to be bought. Look at what we could get. If someone said they would give you the Louvre and asked if you were willing to staff it, that they would give all the paintings for free, would you take it? I hope Ireland would.

I often think about how averse we have become to spending money on culture, history, legacy and art. I think about the fact that the Coimisiún Béaloideasa was set up in 1933. It is the Folklore Commission. Money was put aside in the budget in 1933 to set up the Folklore Commission at a time when Ireland was very poor and was involved in the land annuities dispute. As a result we have one of the best collections of folklore anywhere in the world. It is now a priceless treasure that belongs to the nation and it would have been lost forever if we had not done this.

We have just come to the end of a decade of commemoration. At this stage, the vast majority people have access to military archives in big communities and small ones. It was in 1947 when the world was just coming together after the Second World War when a decision was made to put human resources in. There were no computers or other modern facilities to put those archives together while the people were still alive. It was a long-term project because a commitment was given that none of them would be opened as long as any person who had been involved was alive. As we all know, these were only made available to the public in recent times.

In its early years, the State made some brave decisions on long-term projects that benefited the nation. This treasure trove is a potential resource that other nations will look at and say, "Wow, that was clever, that was innovative". We would probably wind up with a museum building dedicated to bank deposits.

I was interested in one point the Minister of State raised. I was in two minds about dormant accounts for this reason. I presume that it is not bank balances in the safe deposit boxes. It is more likely to be notes. In that event, as we will need to wait a minimum of 80 years and maybe 100 or 150 years, the notes will be worth more as museum pieces than as money, perhaps a lot more. I have collected a few old notes and ha'pennies and all sorts of things. I guarantee I am not cashing them in with the Central Bank. I think the amount of money that will be got from this will be small because in many cases, the intrinsic value of the historic artefact, even if it is currency of the time, would be worth more than the amount the State would get from putting it into dormant accounts. I suggest the State would be more than willing for forgo the monetary value and leave it where it should be in some institution.

I agree with careful consideration of things. A lot of time has already gone into this Bill and much preliminary work was done. We looked at all the legislation, including European and Irish legislation. A thorough job was done on it. I thank the two officials from the Office of Parliamentary Legal Advisers, OPLA, who worked with me on it. On the other hand, it would be a big tragedy if the system were to close a thing down because it means work, hassle or making decisions. I ask that we proceed with reasonable speed, giving time for the various Departments to have their input, but the Government should put forward a finite time - it cannot be done by me or the Oireachtas - for each Department to come back with the issues it is concerned about in the Bill. We would then be able to have detailed, line by line, forensic examination of this Bill.

Due to a shortage of resources in the Oireachtas, many Members have brought forward small Bills. They have not had the resources that were luckily given to me by the Oireachtas to prepare this Bill. A huge amount of professional drafting work has gone into this Bill.

Anybody who looks at the Bill will see how detailed that work was. It reminded me of drafting a Bill when I was a Minister. I had my own staff drafting the heads and then the parliamentary drafts people came in and there was an over and back and meeting after meeting. This Bill was put together in the same Lego way that any Bill is put together, by people who knew what they were at. Therefore, I hope a process will immediately be put in place to start those discussions with other Departments to get clarification on the issues of concern in relation to the legislation. Resources and mechanics only follow when legislation becomes law. If Departments put it in the black hole, that would be a tragedy. If somebody suddenly found a pit that not only had a gold hoard in it - we have some fantastic things in the National Museum - but also had such a variation as is possible, one would say, if it is only about money and the law, put the effort and human resources in and make it happen. I believe if this Bill passes, it will, in time, be seen as really positive for Ireland.

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