Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Members for contributing to the debate. I want to begin on the topic of drugs because we have had a good discussion on this during the debate. It is an important one. I have listened very carefully to what people have said. People have spoken from different perspectives. I am conscious that Citizens’ Assembly proceedings are under way and have no doubt that the assembly will do good work. We need to be careful that none of us falls for the strawman argument that one is on the side of either the criminal justice approach or the health-led approach. I have been Minister for Health and am currently the Minister for Justice and I believe we need to consider this issue in the round. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we need to do more to help people going through addiction, be it an addiction to drink, drugs or gambling. An addiction to drugs is a horrific scenario faced by many people in our country. The impact on the individual and his or her family and community is immense. I am aware of this as I have been Minister for Health. When Minister for Health, I took the approach of determining with the Minister for Justice how the criminal justice system could respond much more empathetically in helping and supporting those with addictions. We have a journey to go in this regard.

What I have said does not take away from other points on the criminal justice side, however. We have to continue to support the Garda in its incredible work. It is doing incredible work in seizing illegal drugs and at international level. We have to listen to the gardaí. I was so pleased to hear that gardaí spoke at the Citizens’ Assembly about the work the Garda is doing in trying to work at international level. In my opening comments, I spoke about the Garda liaison officers. They are working internationally on what is a transnational crime – a crime that involves human trafficking and can be linked to prostitution, sexual violence and gender-based violence. It is a crime that brings so much brutality, pain and misery. The criminals target children as part of their operation by promising a lot of glamour and wealth rather than the reality, which is often debt, death, fear and pain.

We need to talk about both approaches. I stand over the comments I made in this House previously on this matter. I have mentioned the health-led approach to supporting people with addiction and believe in it passionately, but that does not take away from the fact that there are people in Ireland today who are not addicted to drugs, who are not perceived to be from a vulnerable community or background, who are in well-paid jobs, who have access to disposable income but who will this weekend, or perhaps today, snort a line or take a pill. They need to be reminded of the direct correlation between that action and the funding of misery, crime, pain, violence and death. Even in a debate on criminalisation or legalisation, I do not believe anyone in this House is ever going to suggest the legalisation of many horrific types of drugs. Therefore, we have to get real in relation to this and not have strawman arguments. I have listened to many Deputies of many different perspectives in what I believe has been an informed and good discussion. All I ask is that we continue to listen to the voices of the gardaí regarding the tools and powers they need.

I echo the comments made by Deputies on all sides of the House on the absolute misery that organised crime causes – about that, there is no doubt – but it is organised crime that causes misery in good communities among good people. We cannot say that enough; none of us can. Those who are most repulsed, revulsed and appalled and living through the misery are the good decent people in the affected communities. As in the discussion and debate on drugs, we must realise in our discussion on how to tackle organised crime that we absolutely must do more on a criminal justice basis. We also need to continue to support the communities, particularly the parents therein who aspire to a much better, safer future for their children and grandchildren.

I heard many things about organised crime, some of which I fundamentally reject.

I will try not to be overly partisan in this response because this is an important and sensitive issue. The idea that we are soft on crime and some of the things levelled at Government benches are simply not true. We are making real progress on organised crime. An Garda Síochána is making real progress on organised crime. I outlined some of the statistics in my opening speech. Since March 2015, we have seized €325 million worth of illicit drugs. We have seized 146 firearms and 5,672 rounds of ammunition. A total of €28 million in cash has been seized while there have been 1,353 arrests. People in this House are aware from media coverage and elsewhere of what I believe is very significant progress made by An Garda Síochána in its international work in trying to break up some of these criminal organised crime gangs so real progress is being made.

On the criminal justice side, I believe passionately that we must reform the law around the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB. One of the best things this House did in previous years from a criminal justice point of view was to establish CAB. It has worked and is lauded internationally. However, the criminals are always trying to get ahead of us and sometimes they try to come up with vexatious court cases so they can hang on to their ill-gotten goods for longer - live in the big house or mansion, keep the flash car and all the time keep going back to the courts. These vexatious cases are taken to just run down the clock and frustrate the system. We need to end that and we need to legislate this year so that CAB can immediately through the courts appoint a receiver to take the assets so you are not hanging on to the mansion and continuing to live there for years. Once we go down this road, the receiver takes control of the property or the asset until the final disposal order. If at the end of that, you are due the house back, fair enough but that is a real change we can make to show we are trying to keep up and catch up in some areas. We also need to reduce the seven-year period in law to two years in terms of final disposal so we will do these things and I hope we will do them together this year.

We need to increase sentences for conspiracy to murder. At the moment, the maximum sentence is ten years. We intend to legislate in a criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill to increase the maximum sentence to life. We need to continue to give our courts and gardaí the powers they need.

I believe we all need to continue to support the work of the Special Criminal Court. People will have an opportunity to express their views on that this summer. The Special Criminal Court serves a very important purpose in this State. It protects men and women from having to come eye to eye on a jury with some extraordinarily dangerous people in this country. The Special Criminal Court plays a very important role and I am clear in my view that there have been successful prosecutions that would not otherwise have happened were it not for the Special Criminal Court.

We need to legislate regarding protecting children. I have published legislation that will make it an offence to coerce children into a life of crime - the grooming of children. Again, I expect that there is broad support for this.

We have much to do on the criminal justice side and there is a big legislative programme underway to support An Garda Síochána. Specialist units and community policing are both really important. We should not divide into either-or. We need more in both. The specialist units have been key to the success in combatting organised crime while community policing is also key in terms of supporting the community. As Garda numbers rise, and they will rise as recruits continue to go into the Garda Training College in Templemore, which will have another intake on 15 May, we need to make sure that numbers rise in both specialist units and the man and woman in uniform on the beat.

We will not be found wanting when it comes to supporting communities. Deputy Ó Snodaigh referred to the Cherry Orchard implementation board, which was established this week. They tell me that the first meeting of that board will take place this month. This is a really important step in supporting and standing by the community of Cherry Orchard because we know it works. It is working in Drogheda with the Drogheda implementation board. I have been up in Drogheda with regard to this in both my roles over the past number of months. We need to take that model and look at how we can roll out community safety partnerships across the country. As we legislate, and next Tuesday sees Committee Stage of the Policing, Security and Community Safety Bill, we need to make sure that from next year, we roll out a community safety partnership in every county in Ireland and make sure we bring together all the stakeholders and not just An Garda Síochána. Of course, An Garda Síochána should be involved but it should not just be An Garda Síochána. We need the education providers, the local authorities, the transport companies and so on. It involves what everybody needs to do to make the community safe.

The community safety innovation fund continues to grow taking money off the criminals and not leaving it sitting in a bank account but putting it into a fund that disburses back out into communities, particularly those that have been most impacted. This fund is open for applications now.

I also pay tribute to the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, regarding education. We must continue to break the cycle of deprivation and disadvantage that can exist in certain parts of the country. It is always a risk for all people in all parts of the country but it is more acute in some areas. It involves things like the access to apprenticeships programme, prisoner education and a particular focus on the education of children of a prisoner. Just because mum or dad has ended up in prison does not mean you have to end up there. In my other work in Government, I intend to continue working closely with the Department of Justice on this.

This has been a good debate. Some outstanding questions in the political space have been asked and should be answered but certainly as we approach the organised crime space, we have to come at this from a criminal justice space and the community space. That is the way we will continue to support An Garda Síochána in making real progress.

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