Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

We can get them all right.

There is a quote from a guy called William Gibson that has lived in my head quite a lot recently. He said a long time ago that "the future is already here - it's just not evenly distributed". That is very much the case with a lot of what we are talking about at the moment. I see Deputy O'Donoghue nodding in agreement. There is a fundamental equity issue in terms of the cost of fuel and the cost of motoring for low-income families who cannot afford to make the transition to an electric car, although they might like to. One of the provisions that gave rise to the financial resolution we dealt with earlier was an effort by this Government to put the future within reach for more families by removing the VAT that had been levied up to now on solar panels. That is a step in the right direction and it will put the clean energy transition within reach of normal families. We can do things like solving energy poverty at the same time as addressing the climate challenge, which is very necessary.

While I am possibly speaking more broadly than the amendment we are considering, I want to look at the idea of the taxation of petrol and diesel. That conversation actually fits in with the discussion around the move to electric vehicles and around the use of kerosene for heating. In that context, there is an urgent need to invest in retrofitting and in heat pumps. Indeed, the latter is something I would have liked to see the VAT rate change extended to so that we could put more heat pumps, which are an expensive piece of kit, into people's homes. I would like to see the electrification of their heating systems come within the reach of more and more families. This Government should do whatever it can to make that happen for people because it is part of the just transition process.

Looking at the longer term and the issue of excise duty on diesel and petrol, the Commission on Taxation and Welfare spoke about this at length in what is an excellent document. My brother, for example, drives an EV.

We have them in Tramore. He is not paying that excise duty on petrol and diesel at the fuel pump. This is a real case of where the future is unevenly distributed. Those people who can make the jump to EVs have not suffered in the same way from the escalating fuel prices we have seen at the pump. As a State, we need to be cognisant of the future implications for the electrification of our transport system and, in particular, the future implications for our taxation revenue. People may think it is an insignificant amount but I doubt that it is. Certainly people at the pump know that it is not an insignificant amount. If we add up the combination of carbon tax, excise duty on fuel, vehicle registration tax, VRT, and motor tax, combined these contribute €5 billion annually in tax revenue to this State. That is about 8% of all the revenue we take in as a State. As we increasingly electrify our fleet, we are going to have to look at things. Norway is actually a few years ahead of us. We have for the first time seen electrically powered vehicles surpass diesel sales this year. Norway is a good distance down the road on this and found it had to unwind some of the preferential supports offered to electric vehicles. These include such things as VRT or motor tax treatment year on year. We will have to re-examine that for a couple of reasons. One reason is that it will create a significant hole in the public finances unless we move in that direction. Another reason is that excise duty fulfils a number of roles. One of the reasons for taxation is to fund the State but it is also to influence behaviours. Much as VAT does, excise duty drives a certain behavioural response. If we lose that behavioural response, we end up with congestion. A traffic jam of EVs looks absolutely the same as a traffic jam of petrol or diesel vehicles. To reference what Deputy O’Sullivan said, EVs are a good solution in rural areas where people probably have room to get solar panels on their rooftops and have driveways where they can plug in their cars. However, they do not solve congestion. They may be a solution for rural transport but where the Leas-Cheann Comhairle lives, in Galway, the traffic congestion that plagues that city-----

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