Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputies Mattie McGrath, Michael Collins, Danny Healy Rae and O'Donoghue for tabling this motion in regard to the protection of cash in the financial system. I also thank all of those who have contributed to the debate so far. As the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, outlined, this is an important issue and a priority for the Government. We are not opposing the motion, given that it is so aligned with what the Government is trying to do, albeit to a slightly different timetable. I will outline that and I will also try to address many of the different issues that have been raised and to provide more information.

I forgot to wish Deputies a happy International Women's Day. I was glad to hear many Deputies, including Deputies Joan Collins, Pringle and Munster, raise the importance of cash as part of our response to domestic violence and coercive control. The situation of people in vulnerable situations is a core part of why we need to ensure we provide access to cash all of the time.

The motion is entirely consistent with the findings of the retail banking review published last year. That review recognised that the Government and the Central Bank, in line with the ECB's cash strategy, have a fundamental responsibility, together with the banking sector, to ensure the smooth supply of cash and facilitate the use of cash payments by consumers and SMEs.

Deputies spoke about the legality or illegality of refusing cash acceptance. It is not illegal to refuse cash acceptance at the moment once it has been displayed clearly to the customer, but that is not enough and it is not what we are talking about. It is not ideal and it poses real risks to sectors of society, which I know the Deputies are trying to highlight today. That is going to be part of the national payments strategy which will be completed in 2024 and which is also recommended by the retail banking strategy.

A Deputy - I think it was Deputy Nolan - referred to An Post. Officials are working on access to cash legislation, and Deputy Shortall looked for a timeline on that. We will have heads of Bill in the second half of this year, with a view to enactment in 2024. As part of that legislation, there is a question around An Post and around determining what exactly is access to cash, for example, is it access to cash through the post office, through banks or through cashback in shops? The role of An Post is not being ignored. It is part of the conversations I will continue to have with An Post in the context of different communities having been left too short, with no pun intended, by the removal of the retail banks in different communities.

I would perhaps push back against Deputy Nolan's point about Government Deputies responding to the potential withdrawal of cash services around the country. I recall my colleague from Kerry, Deputy Griffin, stating that AIB had shown despicable disregard for people in his community and for customers more broadly. Indeed, I was on radio giving out very strongly about it from an access to cash perspective. I think that was very broadly felt across this House. It is one of the many reasons we are completely agreed on the need to provide ongoing access to cash.

This is about access to cash through legislation arising from the retail banking review. It is also about the acceptance of cash, which is what many Deputies have highlighted in regard to the GAA and other institutions. Many Deputies highlighted the GAA issue in particular. That is a matter of contract law and it is a matter for the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. However, it is exactly the sort of issue that we need to consider in the national payments strategy with regard to cash acceptance and where cash is accepted. That review will examine the potential requirement for certain firms, sectors and sub-sectors, Government bodies, public bodies and others to accept cash. As Deputies have correctly highlighted, that would include bodies like the National Driver Licence Service.

Do we have to require that everybody accepts cash? Do we have to require that every coffee shop accepts cash? I do not know, and we need to talk that through. I am certainly of the view that, for example, every supermarket needs to accept cash and there should be no discretion in that regard. We need to think through the different parts of our society to work out what is fundamental in terms of accepting cash and where we can exercise more discretion, and how we think about that going into the future.

The motion calls on the Government to:

- instruct all Irish banks and banks that operate within this jurisdiction to provide reasonable access to cash, allowing for the further evolution of the cash infrastructure to be managed in a fair, orderly, transparent, and equitable manner for all stakeholders, and to ensure all retail outlets and businesses, together with consumers, have access to cash services;

- categorically state and instruct, via the CBI and the Minister for Finance, that all retail banks must preserve consumers' and businesses' access to cash services, pending the development of the "access to cash" legislation...

The trouble is we do not have the powers to do that on the current legislative basis. What we are signalling very clearly, however, is that this is where we are going with the legislation, and we are doing that this year. If Deputies will allow us some forbearance on that, it is part of the Government strategy. Officials in the Department of Finance and other Departments are beginning work on this at present. The sector is well on notice that this is where the legislative intent is and this is where we are going, and that any reduction in cash services between now and then would have to be rectified when the legislation is enacted. We have signalled very clearly exactly where we are going.

Deputy Doherty mentioned a number of different issues in the context of cyber threats, security measures and privacy. It is important to highlight the EU payment services directive, which originally came into force in 2018. That EU legislation focuses more on the card and digital elements. Officials in the Department of Finance are actively involved in discussions at EU level to ensure that consumers are protected when making electronic payments. That will review fraud rates, security measures, informational requirements for customers, costs and fees. I thank the Deputy for raising that matter.

I also want to make another point about cash that I had to reflect on in listening to the contributions of Deputy Doherty and other Sinn Féin Deputies. It was very good to hear a Sinn Féin contribution to the Dáil motion on access to and use of cash, and especially good to hear Deputy Doherty, Sinn Féin's spokesperson on money and finance and Sinn Féin party treasurer, on his perspectives on access to and use of cash, considering he managed to amass €180,000 in cash to pay for a constituency office, a feat that I could certainly never manage in terms of cash. We also recognise the businesses left high and dry by Sinn Féin, which, I imagine, would love to have been paid in cash, if paid at all. I refer to the €600 owed to the Royal Irish Academy in respect of the 2016 election and the €5,305 owed to a postering company for work done in 2014. Of course, it can be hard to keep track of cash, in fairness, which might be the reason for the very sparse Sinn Féin electoral returns - its statutory electoral returns. Too much cash or too little cash: it sort of depends on where you are sitting.

Of course, cash can pose risks, and less cash does have important security benefits as it reduces the risk of security raids, such as the one on the Northern Bank in 2004. The role of cash in society is an evolving concept, an evolving risk, an evolving threat, depending on where you are sitting. There is simply no question that access to cash and use of cash is a pertinent matter for everybody in Irish society.

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