Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

-----but we also need controls as well. I do not agree with the view that we should have no controls at all or have no nations or borders. Those who have that view should be honest about it and not try to cover up that they do not believe in any returns or any borders. They should be honest about that if that is their view.

As the Deputy rightly pointed out, my reference to being hard was specifically in reference to traffickers. We need to be hard on traffickers. That is what I said in Brussels, what I said on Sunday and what I am saying again here today. I do not see any reason to misrepresent it. The Deputies must have their own agenda if they are trying to misrepresent those words. I agree that we all need to be careful in the words we use. Those of us who are politicians in the centre ground need to be willing to talk about migration. We have been a bit afraid to talk about it, quite frankly, for the past number of years. If those of us in the centre ground do not talk about migration, we will allow the far right and the extreme left to dominate the debate in this regard and that will not be good. That is why we need to talk about it and find ways to talk about it carefully but sensibly as well.

In relation to the electronic travel authorisation, I raised this matter with Prime Minister Sunak when we had our phone call a couple of weeks ago. We have not met in person yet but I hope to do so soon. I expressed our very strong concerns about the impact this could have on third country citizens. It will not apply to Irish or British citizens but could certainly apply to EU citizens living in Ireland, North or South, and non-EEA citizens living in Ireland, North or South, and could make their lives difficult. They could inadvertently find themselves breaking the law in some circumstances just by crossing the Border. We have real concerns about that and would seek to have those allayed.

On the issue of deportations, approximately 700 orders have been issued since September. I do not know the exact figure of the numbers of people who have been affected but they are very small. What I am told is that in most cases where somebody has a deportation order served, they will either return to their home country or go to another country of their own volition. Very rarely does a deportation have to be effected. Some people also just disappear into the system and that makes them very hard to trace.

Deputy Gannon mentioned individual countries. In the context of this debate, it is probably not a good idea to mention or list individual countries. I have been advised not to do so by people in the past and I think that should work in all directions. To be frank, I can understand-----

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