Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I have the same reservations as Deputy Funchion. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. Do we ever learn from our mistakes? The Caranua experience was an unmitigated disaster. I do not think the Minister was involved in setting that up - he was not even here at the time - but it was a disaster. Surely we should learn but we are going back to it. In the last couple of days, the Mail on Sunday broke the story about the nursing homes, the charges and the fees. Several Attorneys General, several Cabinets and several different people were being briefed and it was all about who said what, when and where. It all boils down to one thing, an chéad rud mór, which is minding the system, protecting the system and keeping the system intact, whatever about the people.

I too welcome the people in the Gallery, although some of them may be gone. Horrific things happened in the mother and baby homes and with the delays. I will not say this legislation is rushed because there has been enough talk about it but it is half-baked and not fit for purpose and should be taken away. Why would we not have staff who are independent? The same kind of thing happened with Tusla. Staff moved over from the HSE. Can we not go out and get independent staff and expertise that would be coming with a fresh mind and an open mind to deal with this objectively? No. The Department, like Big Brother, has to have its tentacles in everything and its engagement and overall management. I have seen it too many times. I saw it one time when I was on the Irish Council for Social Housing - I might be straying a bit - and a nomination came up for a place on the board of Pobal. There was an excellent lady and sister from Limerick and we said we would love to get inside Pobal to see what it is like. The meeting had to be adjourned in a panic in case any of us might get it and they came back after lunch and said it had to be a representative of the Minister. That makes an ass of any kind of independence or objectivity.

I am very disappointed about what has happened in here as well. It is a matter of the State having done wrong but it has perpetrated the wrong now for ever more. It is trying to keep the lid on it but the lid is going to be blown straight off it in many areas across the State because people are thankfully fed up of it and tired of it. The system is going to crack. We have whistleblowers in many areas and I salute the vast majority of them. They are brave people. This is not fit for purpose. There is no objectivity and no independence from the Minister and the Department. We had the awful experience of Caranua and the unfortunate people who were dealt with there. They had been traumatised and went there for the trauma. Where is our humanity and compassion? Where is our self-worth and the value of people and their well-being? We talk all the time on different committees about mental health and well-being and valuing people's lives and yet here we are. The Government wants to keep them in this time capsule and keep them quiet about anything else, so they might go away. They will not go away. They are not going anywhere and we will not rest either until this is corrected.

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