Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

We welcome much of what is in the Bill and the advance that it represents. I understand there is a necessity to use modern technology in every way possible to advance the work of An Garda Síochána and to keep communities and people safe across all aspects of our society, and that includes everyone who is involved in public service. I want to echo the Minister's comments in regard to the recent attacks against members of An Garda Síochána and, indeed, attacks against other people in the public service - I think of bus drivers, train drivers and people in our accident and emergency services - and people in all walks of life who have been the victims of vile abuse and, at times, attack. We have to build a society which does not tolerate that kind of behaviour under any circumstances.

I am aware that some groups are not supportive of some of the measures in the Bill and we have to give that due recognition as well. People's privacy and the need to ensure we have balance in all aspects is something we need to be conscious of and work towards. I am aware that organisations such as the Irish Council for Civil Liberties have voiced their strong opposition to many aspects of the Bill, and we have to take due consideration of that. In many countries around the world, there is the use of technology by police forces that are often not using the law appropriately, as we have seen recently in that great bastion of democracy, the United States, where we see people being attacked and all of that sort of thing.

One of the lessons that brings to us is that the very technology we are talking about has exposed some of those kinds of incidents. The protection of the public is one of the reasons I feel that, in particular, body cameras and other technology of that nature is appropriate. Of course, it is also about the protection of the police enforcement officer, so they will not be abused in the same manner that they would be if they did not have that technology.

We have the agreement of the Garda Representative Association, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors and the Garda Commissioner, who have all said there is a need for body cameras to be part of the future of policing in this country. People have been talking about this for a long time and it has been going on at least since I came into the House in 2016. I remember it being talked of at that time and I remember representations from the Garda organisations seeking to have body cameras and other technology used. Indeed, every time there is an accident on the roads, we hear calls for dashcam footage from the general public to be made available to An Garda Síochána. My understanding is that the vast majority of Garda patrol cars do not have dashcams, which flies in the face of logic, given we are looking for the public to provide this yet the vehicles that gardaí use do not have that. This is one of the things that needs to be addressed as quickly as possible.

This raises a question. The Minister's party has been in the justice Ministry for 11 years and we are coming very late to the table in terms of providing this kind of technology. It does not reflect well on the attempt to ensure we protect people and provide the technology to An Garda Síochána to do its job properly. It is taking a very long time to do this. This equipment can deter individuals from attacking members of An Garda Síochána and from using the kind of abuse that they have used. The Minister referred in his opening comments to some of the things we have seen on our streets recently, with protests where protesters are usually holding up cameras themselves while they attack people and use all kinds of violent language against them. We need to ensure that the technology is there to protect members of An Garda Síochána who are interacting with the public. It is also to protect gardaí from complaints that can often be made through the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC, and other organisations in that there is actual evidence that cannot be contradicted because it is on the camera.

We have seen more gardaí resigning from the force in recent times. I am also aware that having more technology does not provide us with more gardaí, and it is more gardaí that we need, more than anything else, not just in our cities but across all parts of the country. I am curious to know why there was a delay in upscaling Garda technology up to now, given gardaí themselves have identified the need for this technology for quite a long time. In the Dublin metropolitan region alone, we have lost 575 gardaí since 2009, so the actual number has reduced in that region, which is where there is most growth in population and the most growth in crime, antisocial behaviour and all of that. We need more gardaí on the beat, on the street, meeting people, involved in their communities and part of their communities.

Two Garda members were attacked in Dublin during a routine public order incident a number of weeks ago. These members were, in fact, brought in from another station to cover duties in that area because of the scarcity. All of this speaks to the problem that we have in terms of numbers. People are simply not joining An Garda Síochána and it is a question of what we need to do to address that. That is vital to any possibility of creating a force which is capable of dealing with the problems that we see across the length and breadth of the country.

I am aware the Minister intends to introduce legislation on facial recognition technology, as he mentioned in his comments. I am sceptical and I have concerns about it, although, at the same time, when the Minister mentions incidents of sexual crime online and the tracing of people who are being trafficked, I understand there is some logic to this. However, again, we need to bring balance to this. There is a great fear that it can be used wrongly. Certainly, in other jurisdictions, it was used in incidents of racial profiling and other types of situations that are simply not the direction we need to go in. We need to bear that in mind.

The overall direction of travel in bringing more technology to the table is vital to ensure that we have the technology to protect not just the community but also those who enforce the law, namely, the members of An Garda Síochána.

We must also know how the data are going to be stored. The Minister mentioned GDPR in his speech and the difficulties in regard to that. CCTV has been mired in controversy and difficulty for many years because of the role of local authorities in providing sites, monitoring and access. It has become a very difficult and fraught area. There is an opportunity in the legislation to streamline that and to get it right. We must ensure that we can do that.

We must also ensure that data are stored appropriately. We must be able to reassure people that anything that is recorded by members of An Garda Síochána will not appear on Facebook, TikTok or any other social media platform, as has happened in the past in some instances we have seen. That has caused great concern for people. We must be able to ensure that we have the proper technology in place so that cannot happen. I seek assurances from the Minister that the recordings will not be going online or be stored in the cloud, which might provide access, and that the storage is independent of the Internet. That is the only way we can ensure that it cannot end up on social media. It is very important that we ensure that could be put in place.

The Minister referred to automatic numberplate recognition technology. That is something that has been around for many years but it is not appropriately used at all. It is something that should have been put in place a long time ago.

I am also conscious that a large amount of the Department's budget goes every year to GoSafe vans that watch people speeding on the roads. I often wonder if the same amount of money was put into having gardaí doing the monitoring, that they would be monitoring more than just speeding. If an incident happens somewhere the Garda could observe who was moving on the road and other such matters. It does not make sense to have a private company being paid millions of euro just to watch one aspect of criminal behaviour when there is so much going on that requires the investment of State resources into the Garda.

We must be conscious of the possibility of this type of technology being abused. We must ensure that rigid and strong safeguards are put in place so that it cannot and must not be abused in the future. That said, we welcome the direction we are moving in and the way gardaí and citizens will be more protected, but as I said at the outset, none of that is enough if we do not enhance the strength of the Garda Síochána. We must ensure that happens as quickly as possible.

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