Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for engaging with us in his new brief. To be fair, the former Minister of State, Deputy Troy, also engaged on this. Deputy O'Reilly and I are members of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the subject came up in the pre-legislative scrutiny work of the committee. Insurance reform has been a long-running saga in Ireland, to say the least. As I said to the Minister of State and Tánaiste in the committee, I seem to remember a Fine Gael Minister in Wexford who came and went trying to deliver insurance reform. It was not possible.

We implemented PIAB in 2003, to a lot of fanfare, and I believe people expected significant things from it in terms of reform. It was supposed to streamline the process and try to reduce costs on the award side, as well as the cost of claims and legal fees. For a while, it seemed as if it was going to have some success but unfortunately, over a period of time, a march came along and, as the Minister of State is aware, the majority of cases are not now going to PIAB and are instead going towards the direction of the courts or are being settled out of court.

We then had the appointment of a judicial review council to try to arrive at a better foundation for the claims outlook to try to get a fair book of quantum, especially in mind of how most of insurance is underwritten from the UK and elsewhere. Our book of quantum is completely out of whack with theirs. All of this was done as part of the ongoing PIAB legislation. We now have a book of quantum that is agreed, and we have judicial guidelines around that. It has still not happened but we hope to see the Law Society taking stronger notice of those guidelines.

The amendment I have proposed to the Minister of State was quite clearly prefaced on the basis of having a recurring review procedure to ensure that all facets of the PIAB and personal injuries resolution board, PIRB, legislation will work as designed and we see whether we are making progress on the areas on which we need to make progress. I was looking at the legal services legislation of 2015 in which there was an in-built review procedure. It essentially asked that the Minister of State would do a review within 12 months and no later than 18 months of the initial enactment. It also asked that the Minister of State would provide a periodic review and report to the Houses of the Oireachtas every three years further that. Any resulting recommendations could be brought in amendments to try to change the founding legislation. That was the reason.

As I read the Minister of State's proposed amendment, I do not see how we can get back to the founding legislation. His amendment only speaks only to the latest legislation. That is a misstep. I accept the Minister of State's bona fides when he says he will leave no stone unturned and will make sure that he will look at this in detail. However, I would prefer to see something in the legislation that speaks to that. I accept he has agreed to a review and I am sure that was not easy with regard to where the Department wished to be. It may be very onerous on the Department. He has committed to a review and maybe we can still get something done if he is prepared to accept some periodic review procedure. It is needed, first and foremost, for transparency.

I was interested in listening to a recent radio debate about insurance. We have a very difficult insurance market as the Minister is well aware. A significant number of underwriters and players have left the market. In order to try to entice new competition into the sector, which is what we all wish to see, we must have better transparency as to where the payout and claims situation will land. I understand the Minister of State is working on the duty-of-care and occupiers' liability insurance legislation. Liability insurance, as the Minister of State will be aware, has risen by almost 50% for many businesses this year. Businesses who have not made any claims have suddenly seen an increase of 50% in their insurance.

The problem is largely that we have many latent claims still lying around but there is no security in the insurance sphere. We have had a reduction in motor insurance which is to be welcomed but we have had a dramatic rise in liability insurance at the same time. The difficultly I see is that when the Minister of State brings in the duty-of-care legislation, we will probably be bound up in this process again, but we will not have a review process beyond this one look-back.

I ask the Minister of State to outline what more he can give. I do not want to use the word "guarantees" because that is not fair, but I ask what his office can give. He may not be the one to occupy that chair in the future. Maybe somebody else will. How can we bind the Department to a meaningful review of this legislation once enacted to try to give us the look-back and understand the legislation is working as required? That will clearly mean that more cases will go through PIAB.

Whether they go through PIAB or the courts, the sum of the awards are nearly the same but the legal fees are dramatically different. I looked at table earlier today which showed that cases in PIAB were being settled for €1,018 whereas they were costing €23,000 in legal fees through the courts. That makes no sense and it is damaging credibility and is absolutely hurting businesses and policyholders. We have to get to a point of insurance reform in which people can believe.

The Minister of State and I spoke earlier. He outlined his position, which, I accept, is difficult, but I ask him to highlight what kind of guarantees he can give that we will have a robust process with regard to this review. If the review brings something up, what is the legislative procedure to bring further amendments? How does he see that happening? It would be a help if he were able to highlight that.

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