Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for his question. The main way in which we can intervene to help small businesses is through the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS. This legislation is now going through the House. It will give businesses up to €10,000 monthly to help them with their energy bills. We are keen to get this measure legislated for as soon as possible, to get the scheme up and running and to backdate it to September 2022. This will help many businesses to a large extent with their energy costs. As is the case with households, though, there is no way we can cover the entire increase. We can, however, make a big difference and this is the main way we are going to help small businesses in the months ahead. I note and welcome the Deputy's support for the increase in the national minimum wage. I wish to emphasise this in the House.

One thing I should say, and we should not forget this, is that more people - 2.5 million - are now at work in Ireland than ever before. This has come against the backdrop where we have seen improvements in pay, terms and conditions and new workers' rights pretty much every year for the past ten, 15 or 20 years. It does not add up therefore that anyone thinks there is some kind of correlation between low pay and poor rights. Ireland is a classic example of where we have improved pay, terms and conditions and workers' rights every year for ten or 15 years now, and yet we have seen levels of employment rise. I hope it will continue to rise.

Regarding what we have done on fuel costs, which the Deputy mentioned, when the price of fuel goes up, the VAT take also goes up. This is not the case with excise duty. We have cut the rate of excise duty, and we have taken 20 cent off a litre of petrol and 15 cent off a litre of diesel precisely for this reason. We have also cut VAT levied on electricity and gas prices. The rate has been cut to 9%, which is the lowest rate of VAT charged on electricity and gas prices since taxes began, or certainly since VAT levies began. The Deputy did not mention this in his contribution.

I hear the Deputy's suggestion regarding some sort of two-tier system to help SMEs. I do not know what this means, however, and I would be interested if the Deputy could flesh out some proposals. First, how would he define an SME? Would it be based on the number of employees, on turnover or on profits? These are all very different things, as the Deputy will understand. A business can have a small number of employees but a large turnover. Similarly, a business could have many employees but no profits. How would it be decided, then, which businesses would be in which tier? Second, what would the differences be? Would small businesses be allowed to pay their staff less? Would there be a lower minimum wage? If the Deputy wishes to flesh out proposals, I would be interested to see them.

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