Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I welcome homeowners from Clare, Limerick, Mayo, Sligo and Donegal, who are in the Gallery today. I commend all of them, and all affected homeowners, many of whom have been campaigning for a decade. In particular, I commend them on the incredibly intense level of campaigning over the past 12 months, on the streets and on social media, and their engagement with the Minister and his officials, as well as the Opposition.

Having listened very carefully to the Minister, it is clear there is a growing gap between what he says he is doing and what is in the Bill and on offer to affected homeowners. Many of us have been talking to those homeowners since the publication of the legislation over a week ago. The emotions they are expressing to us are anger, frustration and a sense of being very badly let down. They, and we, are deeply unhappy about the rushed nature of the legislation. It has also been greatly delayed. When I raised this point with the Minister last week on the floor of this House, he said it had not been delayed. On 10 February, in the Select Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage, I asked him for an update on the legislation and he said, "I hope to publish the general scheme in March." He went on to say, "If we need amendments on Committee Stage, we can do that too." When I raised the March deadline with some of his officials, they were surprised because they were working to a deadline of the end of April. April then turned into May and May into the start of June.

Here we are with very important legislation, which every Member of this House wants to get right in the best interests of the homeowners, and we are being given an inadequate amount of time to ensure it is correct. The accelerated pre-legislative scrutiny at committee was not ideal but that was a gesture of good faith on behalf of many of us to show we did not want to delay the process. A Bill of this size and complexity getting just two hours of consideration on Committee Stage next week is a scandal. The price tag for this Bill could go up to or maybe even exceed €3 billion. Two hours of debate is negligent, if not reckless. In my considered view, and in the view of many others, this Bill is not right.

It would be very easy for the Minister to dismiss my views and those of my colleagues, or others in opposition. What I want the Minister to do is listen very carefully to the words, not of other politicians but of the homeowners themselves. First thing this morning, a joint statement was issued by the Donegal Mica Action Group, the Mayo Pyrite Action Group, the Clare Pyrite Action Group, the Limerick Pyrite Action Group and the Sligo Pyrite Action Group. I urge the Minister and his Government colleagues to listen to what they had to say. The statement reads:

We, the representatives of the homeowners, across Donegal, Mayo, Clare, Limerick and Sligo, would like to issue the following joint statement regarding the Defective Block bill scheduled to be debated in the Dail today.

It is imperative that the voice of the Homeowners, the victims of Defective materials, is heard and that [in particular] the Government TD’s, those individuals that we have voted into office, listen before it is too late.

Listen, because to date, you have not listened. We are angry, frustrated and the endless torture will not be tolerated to go on a minute further.

Over the past ten years, we have engaged endlessly with different government officials and government parties. We have entered talks bringing with us our lived experience of this nightmare. Arming each official with the practical solutions of what is needed on the ground to deliver a scheme that will rebuild our homes.

At each stage we have encountered obstacles. We had been delivered a scheme that was so flawed it proved financially unviable, and practically unworkable to be of any use for impacted homeowners.

Last summer talks were entered into again with homeowner representatives from Mayo and Donegal (other impacted counties [including Clare, Limerick etc.] were excluded from this process), under Government pretense of forming a joint working committee, which would take on board homeowner input. The aim: a joint working effort that would design a Scheme that truly provided the 100% Redress, that the full Government supported on June 15th 2021.

Sadly, this was not to be the case. Not because we homeowners did not engage but because the Dept of Housing Officials and Govt officials wasted 3 months defending their already debunked 90/10 scheme. When the Minister of Housing announced the scheme in November it showed "Lessons had not been Learned".

Presented to the press was a trojan horse, that brought with it all the media spin the Department of Housing could throw at the public. Spin that said it was indeed 100%, when it is not. Spin around a figure of €420,00 which very few will ever get. Spin about the burden to taxpayers, when we are the very taxpayers who have been left to suffer in rotting homes, built with unregulated blocks. Portraying us homeowners as greedy, as chancers. Their indifference for the people in homes built with defective blocks quite evident through the schemes many clauses and trappings.

Not to be deterred or walk away, representatives again agreed to enter discussions with government representatives. Our aim – to try and improve the new Scheme for a third time. All areas were reviewed, and solutions provided to the additional problems created by the Department. Solutions were presented for rental property and holiday home inclusion, an increase on the max grant available, inclusion of foundations, the controversial Damage Threshold assessment, to name a few. Multiple weekly meetings over 6 months were held on the pretense of designing a Scheme that would work.

This bill was due to be different. This engagement would be different from past experience. We would work together to design a Scheme that truly provided the 100% Redress, that the full Government supported on June 15th 2021.

Last week we were due to see the fruits of our labor delivered. A workable scheme that would enable the thousands of homeowners across 13 counties to move forward with their lives. Instead, what was delivered over 60 pages was contempt for us homeowners, in the same week the Housing Committee heard quarries are still producing defective materials. How can we [be expected to] trust a system which is not fit for purpose failing in its responsibility to protect victims, citizens, and taxpayers? Threats of fines and imprisonment for innocent homeowners. Minister nowhere mentioned were the equivalent fines or threats of imprisonment for the true perpetrators in this. The producers of these defective blocks, including giants of the Irish ... [construction] Industry.

We have scaled every obstacle put in our way. But it appears the government has strung us along for months. Practically every suggestion and solution presented ignored by the Department of Housing and Housing Agency officials. The voices and plight of the ordinary homeowners treated with cynical contempt by those with the power to do better by us.

Over the past week, and pressed to the wall we have worked around the clock to put forward 80 amendments to make this scheme work. 80 amendments because that are the number of failures in this bill. We the homeowners are calling on you the elected TDs to listen carefully to the amendments [when they are put forward]. They have come from the insight and suffering over long years of those who know what it means to live in these homes. The new Scheme will not work without these amendments. By ignoring us again today, you are wasting more money, destroying more lives.

While we wait on the I[ndustry] S[tandard] 465 review which we need to include all deleterious materials scientifically proven to be problematic, along with foundations, you [Minister] must ensure for us, your electorate these amendments are made. You must forget party politics and focus on what is best for your constituents no matter what their political allegiance and show the flexibility to be the change required to finally make this scheme work.

To date this government has broken all parliamentary process when trying to rush this scheme through the statutory legislative stages. You have given us no time to review the bill, no time to debate the bill, no time to even communicate and discuss the consequences of the long-term aspects of the bill to the thousands of homeowners whose lives will be destroyed by not only defective blocks, but your failure to provide true redress for the problem.

Minister let us be [very] clear, so our words are not misunderstood. If this bill is not amended, we the homeowners will not support it. We will continue our campaign and protests until it is amended, until it is fit for purpose. Fit for the citizens of this country who need to avail of it to fix their homes. It is not just our houses that this is destroying, but our daily lives, our working lives, our family lives, our physical and mental wellbeing, the very fabric of our communities.

Minister we will not give up. The time for engagement is over. Amendments are needed. It’s time that your Government and its Dept of Housing listen and deliver what has been promised.

That was signed by representatives of the homeowners across the affected counties.

Those are not the words of a politician or words that can be dismissed as political opportunism; they are the words of individuals and families who are living in homes that are crumbling around them. I urge the Minister to listen carefully to what the Opposition has to say to ensure we get this Bill correct. Homeowners are telling us that the legislation is not fit for purpose and that it is defective. They have drafted more than 80 amendments and asked Deputies to table them. Many of us have done that and more. The Minister needs to listen to what they are saying, to consider their amendments and to improve this Bill.

I want to highlight a couple of key concerns, without prejudice to the others, that we will address next week. This Bill does not provide 100% redress for the vast majority of homeowners. Martina Hegarty from Mayo made an incredibly compelling case at the committee. Many Members present heard her. She lives in a modest family home in Mayo. It is approximately 90 sq. m. She estimates, on the basis of the information available today, that she may get a grant of €169,000. On the basis of the quotation that she has been given today, before factoring in inflation, the actual cost of full remediation and replacement, as per the grant scheme, could be as high as €200,000. She does not have the difference. There is real fear in counties Mayo and Clare that if the damage threshold is based on the recommendations of the expert group, it will be particularly disadvantageous for those with pyrite, because the nature of cracking and damage manifestation is different. If there is damage to a property, it should be on the scheme. The damage threshold should only be about prioritising when those homes are worked on. I urge the Minister to consider that point carefully.

The formula for calculating the cost is deeply flawed. Not only do we need updated figures from the SCSI in advance of the opening of the schemes, specific to the counties and regions affected, the terms of reference, which the SCSI had no hand or part in producing, need to be reviewed so that we get a 100% like for like replacement, not what is currently on offer. While the 12-month review is welcome, the proposal for addressing cost inflation is capped at 10%. What happens if inflation is above that? Who picks up the tab under the scheme? The homeowner.

The exclusion of foundations is contrary to the science. I welcome what the Minister said about the NSAI's work, but it has to be accelerated. We cannot have a long gap between the opening of the scheme and that outcome. The same has to be said of the more substantive review by NSAI of IS 465. We were informed by officials that it will be delayed until the latter end of next year. That could be nine to 12 months after the scheme is opened, which is not acceptable.

One of the greatest admissions in the Bill is the fact that the downsizing option includes a penalty. Going back to Martina Hegarty's case, if she cannot afford the extra €40,000 or €50,000 to remediate and replace her home, surely she should be allowed to take the grant of €160,000 or €170,000 and, within the footprint of her existing home, build a home that is up to 20% smaller than the current one without any reduction in the grant? That was an incredibly generous compromise by the homeowners. We all expected something like that to be in the Bill. Unfortunately, it is not here. There are also concerns that homeowners will be denied demolition and rebuilding, even when that is the right option. That is a function of the mistrust that has developed between homeowners and the State. I urge the Minister to do everything possible to ensure that does not happen.

The definition of "relevant dwelling" in the legislation is far too restrictive. Apartments, group homes, nursing homes and other properties are excluded. Nobody in this House dispute that homes with families living in them, as owners or tenants, have to be the first priority, but I do not see why some pathway for the remediation of other forms of properties could not have been included under the scheme.

I welcome the inclusion of social homes and the two pilots that we were told about, where the Minister's officials are working with AHBs and Donegal County Council. Please do not allow these pilots to be slow and the subsequent roll-out of remediation for all affected public homes to be delayed. Social housing tenants should not be left living in unsafe or crumbling buildings.

The process involving the council and the Housing Agency, as outlined in the Bill, runs the risk of being slow and overly bureaucratic. All Members know about the long delays in local authorities because of understaffing. On a number of occasions, the timelines given for applicants and homeowners to respond are short compared with the more generous timelines for statutory agencies. That balance has to be struck. Even I was surprised by the large number of regulations that will be required by the Minister's officials. They have much work to do between now and the end of the year. I have the greatest respect for the efforts they make in this regard, but knowing how busy they are, I do not see how all those regulations will be drafted, approved by Government and laid before the House by the end of this year. It is important for the Government to be as honest as it can with people about the timelines. Given the delays we have had to date, anticipating further delays is not unreasonable. Homeowners need to be told when the scheme will be open.

There is much work to do on this Bill between now and the end of the Dáil term. We are committed to giving the Minister as much time as he needs and to making ourselves available as often as required to meet that deadline. The select committee can meet as often as he needs next week. We have discussed it and have made ourselves available. That will not in any way delay the passage of the legislation by the recess. I urge him to work with us on this; the homeowners urge him to work with them too. They have made clear in their statement that if the Bill is not amended, they will not support it. Of all the lines in their statement, the profundity of what they have said to us as legislators cannot go unrespected.

I urge the Minister not to make the same mistakes as his predecessors. Please do not put in place a defective scheme that does not work. Do not prolong the misery and heartache for owners and tenants living in defective buildings. Let us get it right this time. The Business Committee met today. The Government Chief Whip undertook to take back to the Government a sincere request from many of us to give us more than two or three hours next week. There is no reason our committee could not meet for six to eight hours on Wednesday. We will do that. That will still allow the Minister to complete Report and Final Stages on Wednesday evening or Thursday morning and to then proceed to the Seanad.

Going back to what I said earlier, given the impact this legislation will have on thousands of families, on all taxpayers, and the huge sum the Government will have to commit to undo the mistakes of industry and light-touch regulation in the past, the right thing to do is to give us the time on Wednesday to go through the 80 homeowners' amendments, to adequately consider them and to listen to the Minister's response and indication of willingness to take them away to be introduced in the Seanad. Let us get this legislation right. It would be a travesty of the highest order, having left families with two bad schemes, for a third scheme to repeat all of those mistakes.

None of us is playing politics or trying to create any difficulties. We want what the homeowners want, which is legislation and a remediation scheme that is right. The ball is in the Minister's hands. I ask that him to work with us, fix the Bill, pass the amendments, and give all of these homeowners and their neighbours the redress scheme they rightly deserve and so desperately need.

See this speech in context