Dáil debates

Wednesday, 29 June 2022

EirGrid, Electricity and Turf (Amendment) Bill 2022: Committee and Remaining Stages

 

4:27 pm

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I will go back to the various points made. In response to Deputy Whitmore, as I said earlier, we are in the middle of contracting and purchasing machines. The public would not welcome if the House were to set a price in the middle of negotiations and, therefore, we do not know what the final cost will be. The assessment from the CRU and others is lower than that quoted by the Deputy. I do not want to be specific or categoric because it will depend on the price of machines acquired. If it were the case that we had an open-door attitude that did not consider the climate or, indeed, the cost to the consumer or network charges and so on, then the Deputy would have a fair point. However, that is not the case in this Government and, in my role as Minister, that is not how I see it.

I do believe, however, that there is real potential for the likes of data centres, if in the future we will be able to contract within our climate-constrained conditions. I believe there is a possibility and will be an essential requirement to move towards district heating and to see the waste heat from data centres as one of the ways in which we could have a heat load source that would provide for future data centres.

As for meeting our climate targets, it is not just about the individual. That is just not true. Our sectoral emissions targets take into account industry, the public service, agriculture, domestic use and transport in every guise. Every single sector will have to play its part and, yes, it has to be a just transition. We have to make sure we protect the people on the lowest incomes as we do this. It is just not true that it is the individual who will have to do everything. Everyone will have to do something.

District heating has a very strong potential role to play. The Tallaght district heating scheme must be almost close to switching on. I was out there recently and it was very far advanced. It has huge potential efficiencies and benefits to local communities, with reductions in carbon emissions. Similar things can, will and should be done into the future. I do not accept this is not possible or that we will not do it. We will do it, and at scale. It will take ten to 20 years, but that is where we need to go.

Deputy Bríd Smith asked, if I recall correctly, if we an outlier as to whether we have a large number of data centres. Yes, we do, and that is a factor of a variety of issues. First, we have a cold climate, and data centres tend to locate in cold climates. It is not just us but more northern regions generally. Management of heat is one of the biggest issues. There is a certain gain in this country because we do not have the high temperatures other parts of Europe have. Also, on the back of State investment and strategic decision-making, we went early in providing very good fibre-optic connectivity, particularly transatlantic and to the UK. That fibre infrastructure and our security infrastructure were critical. A third factor in data centres locating here is the fact that, historically, we have had one of the most stable, most reliable and most secure grids, which is what is needed for any kind of process such as this. I think modern data centres need almost three grid connections into them in order that there is an absolute fail-safe. They cannot be allowed to stop. Looking at the statistics, and this is to the credit of the ESB, EirGrid and others, we have had one of the highest reliability rates in recent years, so we have relatively expensive electricity. That was not necessarily the reason the companies came here instead of other locations, but the security, the fibre connectivity and the fact their businesses had other operations here are some of the reasons we have a very high number of data centres.

Deputy Smith referred to the statistic of 30% in 2030. I do not think that will be the figure but there is no doubt those we have already contracted will see a further expansion in demand for data centres. As I said, we do not, as a State, go back on our word because that would actually cost the Irish consumer more in the end because people would not trust our word in planning or other processes. Then we would be shot and we would be gone as a reliable partner to work with. Therefore, we do not do that. We will not, however, just open the door, have a free-for-all and ignore the need to meet our climate and other targets.

Finally, Deputy O'Rourke's assessment is exactly the sort of assessment the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment will have to do, but it is not just that Department. As I said, climate law here has a real effect and sectoral emissions targets have real impact. We are working with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, not on agreeing moratoriums and saying never again here, but rather, coming back to what I said earlier, on assessing whether we could do this now in a clever way, where we are at the very forefront of managing flexible demand, being really efficient, using district heating, using backup generation in a way that helps the grid and using all these kinds of new developments. My sense is that the companies we are working with now realise that is the way all countries will have to go and that they will deal with a country which is good at that, is upfront and honest about that and puts demands on companies. Going back to what Deputy Whitmore said, we do say to companies they will have to shape up with us as we both learn how to be good in this low-carbon way together. I see that as the best way forward for our State. A review in our climate action plan with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is the right thing to do.

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