Dáil debates

Wednesday, 29 June 2022

EirGrid, Electricity and Turf (Amendment) Bill 2022: Committee and Remaining Stages

 

4:17 pm

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

It is true, I am told, but I also hear this when I talk to people in industry, that there is a significant level of connection for the large companies Deputies have mentioned. They provide a great deal of employment, accounting for approximately 50,000 jobs. Much of our tax base is also based on the operations of those companies. That revenue is significant in paying for our social welfare, health, education and other needs. If one talks to representatives of those companies, they will say they see a real connection between the location of data centres and the location of staff. They see it as integral to and a core part of their businesses. Those companies do make that association. That is true.

It is also true that we have passed a climate law and the Government will shortly agree the sectoral emissions targets. This will mean that every sector will have to live within its climate targets. I am certain that will be the determining factor in what we can do. As much as we might like and want further employment or other measures, we will not, as I keep reiterating, have a free pass for any one industry that means other industries will have to do more. I say that because we have such a difficult challenge to face and such a huge leap to make. Therefore, as much as IDA Ireland wishes to encourage further development, and I can fully understand its imperative to provide investment opportunities and further encourage such development, it must be undertaken within a low-carbon calculation.

To mention another point in passing, I am all the more convinced of that point now and not just because of our climate law but also because the general approach and understanding agreed at the European Energy Council on Monday and the Environmental Council at 2.30 a.m. this morning doubles down on that. There is the European Green Deal, the energy efficiency directive, if it is agreed with the European Parliament, which will enter into trilogue discussions in the next six months, the renewables directive and the other Fit for 55 measures. What was agreed in a historic manner at the European Council over the last few days will mean that, similar to the domestic context, climate limits will be the real limits every industry will have to operate within and under. To my mind, that is absolute, cast in iron and clear.

I cannot accept Deputy Naughten's amendment. In respect of the additional reasons the Deputy referred to, one suggested was the impact of the data centres on the PSO levy. As I said, I do not see this as having an impact. Our PSO levy has now, effectively, turned negative. The levy was always a kind of insurance policy to provide certainty for renewable power to be generated. In instances where the cost of electricity, driven by the cost of gas, is above that level the PSO rate falls. I do not see a direct connection between this policy and the PSO levy policy. I do not see that that connection or cost to the householders is in any way affected one way or the other.

Deputy O'Rourke made a valid point. The legislation for the Commission for Regulation of Utilities was written to give direct accounting and responsibility not to the Minister or the Department, but to the relevant Oireachtas joint committee. That is the law that was written down and decided by this House some 20 years ago now in the early 2000s, although I am guessing. Sometimes when we are reading out answers, the Department has to state this fact in any policy debate or discussion because it is a fact. We have to continue to review all these structures and systems but, to my mind, the CRU has served this country well and the independent regulatory system also has real benefits. Real costs can sometimes start to apply when decision-making and regulatory oversight, foresight and control are not independent.

That is for a wider policy debate, not one on this immediate emergency legislation. The CRU is centrally involved. It wrote to me, as the Minister, with its assessment that this power gap exists. The auctions the CRU had organised had not delivered because of the capacity shortfall the commission and EirGrid had not identified and because demand had increased. The CRU is centrally involved in reviewing, assessing and applying to me, as Minister, to start this process. I was happy to respond to that request. We work collectively. This is a small State. Whatever about the debate on the structures, in my experience of twice being a Minister - I am sure it is also the experience of Deputy Naughten, who is a former Minister - Ministers work well with their public servants. These are trusted, skilled and well-qualified public servants. Ministers trust their advice. In this instance, it was the CRU that initiated this process, in conjunction with our Department, in respect of advising and discussing, and EirGrid. All the parties involved worked together as a team of public servants for the State. That is what the legislation provides for, not a wider outcome on what our broader energy policy might be.

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