Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Before the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, leaves, I wish to acknowledge that both she and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, to be fair to them, have gone out and met the people involved and tackled these issues head on and they are not sitting behind their desks in their Departments. On that basis, before she leaves, I want to acknowledge the work she is doing. I also raise the issue of the St. Francis welfare home in Fermoy, which was redesignated during the pandemic as a transitional care facility. My understanding is that it is to close temporarily. I just wanted to raise that with the Minister of State and acknowledge her work before she leaves.

I am glad to have this opportunity to support the motion put forward by the Independent Group. It is a vital motion and I am glad the Government is not opposing it. It has come to my attention that recruitment seems to be at the heart of this issue. We keep being told by the HSE and the Government that the lack of personnel to meet the demand is one of the basic issues. I have received responses to parliamentary questions about this. I asked the Government how much it is spending on recruitment via the HSE, that is, moneys being given to recruitment companies to recruit the talent that is required to meet demand, particularly in respect of respite, which is the subject of this motion. For 2020 and 2021, €12 million was handed over to recruitment companies to sort this issue. What are we spending the money on? Where is the value for money? Why is it that they have not succeeded in recruiting the staff we need to meet the demands of people in this sector who so badly need the services? We need to start auditing and questioning the amount of money being spent by the HSE. It has spent €12 million in the last two years on recruitment companies to recruit staff. I am being objective here but no one could argue that we are getting value for money with that kind of spend. If we were, we would have the staff in place to meet the needs.

The one issue I am constantly raising is that of Cooleens House, which is under the ambit of St. Joseph's Foundation. I am being told month in, month out and week in, week out, that recruitment is at the heart of the issue and that the centre cannot be reopened to allow people to avail of the services because it cannot recruit the required staff. One can only accept that answer for so long. If we are spending €12 million, surely to goodness that money, wherever it is being deployed, could find somebody to be able to reopen that facility. A person in charge is required. On top of that, there is a Darwinian competition going on whereby the HSE is taking staff away from section 38 and 39 organisations. The HSE is competing with voluntary organisations for staff, which the HSE is responsible for providing in the first instance. Cooleens House is like every other respite facility throughout the country. I only use that example because it is one I am familiar with.

We need to grasp the nettle in respect of the recruitment issue. For two years now we are being told the issue is recruitment and that we cannot recruit the staff. I do not think we are buying that anymore. We have been quite patient and people have understood that there is a recruitment issue but it is time for us to start drilling down and getting into the weeds of why we cannot recruit staff in a way that meets the demand and the needs of people who are affected. Speaker after speaker has said that families are coming to us as Deputies and Senators saying they cannot get respite care for their loved ones. When we question why that is, we are told it is because we do not have enough staff in the system. We need to start drilling down into why that is and how we can justify spending €12 million. The Government, through the HSE, has spent €12 million in the last two years giving money to recruitment agencies. What are they doing for that money? That is the question.

I welcome this motion. As I said, I am glad the Minister is not opposing it. There is also the issue of pay parity between section 39 organisations and the HSE. I accept the Minister of State has had meetings with the National Federation of Voluntary Bodies, FEDVOL, in respect of that and I understand that around €20 million is needed. The reason I am raising that issue is that there are two cohorts of people who are effectively doing the same job but because of a different governance structure, one set of workers is paid less than the other. Tackling that issue would go some way towards solving the problem of recruitment. We need a bit of energy around this piece of it. It is not fair at a time like this. I will go back to Cooleens House. When I questioned the Minister of State about Cooleens House, she noted that it has six rooms and provides enormous capacity for respite in north Cork. She acknowledges that the challenge of recruiting a person in charge is what is preventing it from being reopened.

I support the motion. I am glad to have this opportunity but we need to start looking at the recruitment issue. It has been thrown back at us as the reason for the delay or the inability to provide services. We are not accepting it anymore as a reason. It can be solved. The HSE must be questioned and interrogated more on how it can justify that kind of spend at a time when people are crying out for services.

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