Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

We are supporting this amendment. When this situation arose a few weeks ago, many Deputies throughout the country would have been contacted by people in the legal profession and by members of An Garda Síochána who were very concerned about the outcome of the amendment and the potential risks it involved. As the Minister of State stated in his remarks, a considerable body of work is carried out through our District Court system throughout the State. We are just after coming out of a Joint Committee on Justice meeting at which we discussed the fact we had waived the pre-legislative scrutiny process. It is very reluctantly we do so because we should, as a norm, carry out pre-legislative scrutiny all the time. In this situation, most members of the committee recognise that this amendment was ensuring what has been common practice up until now can continue. It is a very small amendment to ensure that happens.

However, there are questions at which we need to look. What has been common practice? Is it appropriate that it has been common practice? It is appropriate that members of An Garda Síochána act as prosecutors when the same organisation is the investigator of crime? It needs to be acknowledged that there has to be work done to look at that. In the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland document, which has been endorsed by Government and all parties in this Chamber, there is a reference to that whole issue needing to be looked at and examined.

That is not to recognise that the vast majority of these cases, especially in the District Court, are for minor offences. However, some of the cases are serious offences that can have a serious impact on the individuals who are charged. It is something we need to recognise. Change needs to happen in that area because members of An Garda Síochána are better out in the community keeping people safe and making sure that crime does not happen, rather than being caught up in court proceedings. I think all of us would acknowledge that is the case. However, to make that happen, a process of change needs to come about over a period of time. In that situation, certain more serious categories may be removed from the Garda court presenter and there would then be a staged element where the Government would, I hope, up the capacity of the State Solicitor's office to deal with these issues on an ongoing basis across the District Court system.

The reality is that, for the majority of members of An Garda Síochána who engage in this work, there are usually one or two who specialise in it in each area. From my understanding, it is always sergeants who do this. They have experience and knowledge and know what they are doing. They have been there before, are known to the court system and know the system very well. In that context, we have proposed an amendment for Committee Stage that specifies any member of An Garda Síochána above the rank of sergeant. It would be appropriate to include that and I hope the Minister recognises that would be an appropriate amendment, because it is in standing with what is and continues to be common practice across the board.

Our courts system, especially our District Court system, is under considerable pressure. The outcome of this judgment was going to put it under even more pressure. We recognise the District Court system is very slow due to the number of judges we have in place. There is a recognition we need to expand that. We need to ensure justice is not only done effectively but also efficiently. People face very long waiting times to have their cases proceed. Much of that is down to the fact we do not have enough judges in the system. There are also other aspects of it that need to improve. The pressure the pandemic put on the system meant the system had to respond. The system responded quite well in many cases and there were situations in which technology and innovative practices came into play that made it more effective and efficient. That is all to be welcomed and they need to be mainstreamed. We recognise that and will work with Government to make that happen.

Primarily, the issue we are dealing with in this amendment, to ensure what has been common practice up to now is maintained, should be short-lived legislation. We need to look at it as we go forward. If we are to implement the vision for policing document, we certainly have to look at this as a short-term measure and look at a way of relieving these duties from members of An Garda Síochána, ensure it moves into the State Solicitor's office and ensure that office is properly resourced to deal with it.

The issues several members of the committee had with regard to not waiving pre-legislative scrutiny were appropriate. It is unfortunate that a mechanism is not found to ensure members of the Joint Committee on Justice are not given at least a technical briefing with regard to issues such as this when they come up. That should happen. I ask the Minister of State to ensure we do not have this situation in the future. I know this is an emergency and last week was not a sitting week. We had all those factors into play. In broad terms, it is poor practice that things such as this should be sprung on the Joint Committee on Justice and the Houses of the Oireachtas in that manner and that we would move them so fast without being able to take a breath and look at them closely. It is poor practice, especially if it is something that is more complex that may need a little more scrutiny. I accept this is very simple legislation that keeps in place the process we have at present, but it is not good practice to continue behaving in that manner into the future.

The overall District Court system needs to be dealt with adequately. Once this amendment is through, and I expect the amendment will be worked very quickly through the process here because it is very simple and understandable for people what the amendment is trying to do, the broader picture needs to be looked at in detail. There needs to be a firm commitment from Government to ensure we get our District Court system right, that it practises well, delivers for everyone and is effective and efficient for people who are before the courts and who are working in that system. I hope the Minister will take our amendment on board when it comes forward.

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