Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I have spoken to the commission in some detail about this and, for what it is worth, while pay and conditions are a factor, they are by a long shot not the only factor with regard to people leaving the Defence Forces. Let us be clear on that. Let us also be clear that Deputy Barry and others want to ensure that the Defence Forces are part of the ICTU negotiations on public sector pay agreements that are to get under way in the coming weeks. The Deputy cannot have it both ways. He cannot say he wants to see significant increases in pay for the Defence Forces while at the same time wanting them to be part of broader public sector pay agreements and so on. It is important to say that. Pay is a very significant part of the defence budget and will continue to be so. Many of those increases in defence spending we talk about are associated with pay. That is why the estimated cost to achieve level of ambition 1 in the commission's report, which involves staying where we are but reaching the full establishment of 9,500 personnel, involves increased expenditure associated with pay. Pay is a big part of our broad defence budget. Pay comes from the defence budget rather than the budget of the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath. Of course, decisions on pay involve other Departments but it comes under the defence budget.

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