Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I move:

That Dáil Éireann: notes that:

— as per the Dáil record, the Government is in the process of drafting regulations with respect to the sale and supply of solid fuels, which are due to be signed in September of this year;

— the Government has confirmed that the proposed regulations will not be implemented this year;

— as per the Dáil record, under the Government's proposed regulations people will not be permitted to place turf on the market for sale or distribution to others;

— the Government has confirmed that it wishes to protect the existing rights of people who save turf; and

— turf is an affordable solid fuel, many people are dependent on solid fuel to warm their homes, and in some counties up to 34 per cent of households are solely dependent on turf as solid fuel;

calls on the Government to exempt from the proposed solid fuel regulations:

— people who have turbary rights, Q3 agreements, fee simple rights, acquired rights, commonage rights, licensed rights, leased rights, inherited rights, familial rights or any other recognised ownership rights;

— people who assisted the State by providing their bogs for preservation as part of the designation of boglands, and who participated in the Turf Cutting Compensation Scheme, whether they sold their bogs to the State, took compensation to buy turf elsewhere, opted to be supplied with turf by the State or moved bog under licence or turbary right; and

— people who have historically rented or have been provided with a plot and saved turf for their own household; and

further calls on the Government to undertake to work with the industry over a reasonable period of time to ensure that turf sold in larger urban areas via retail outlets meets the same moisture content regulations which currently apply to timber and peat briquette, thus ensuring any proposed ban on the sale of turf will not be necessary.

I am sharing time with Deputy Pringle. This motion relates to the regulation of solid fuels. I thank the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan, for coming to the House. I know he has a busy schedule. I thank him and the Government for accepting the motion.

The reason I brought forward this motion is that over the past few weeks, as the Minister is aware, on foot of a parliamentary question being asked, there is a great deal of anxiety among the public and especially among elderly people. When I talk about rural Ireland I am referring to people in the countryside and also to people in small towns who rely on turf as a solid fuel. I hope this is a respectful debate by everybody because we need to find solutions, not badger each other. I am not whining about it but I noted that in the debate over the last few weeks everybody spoke about turbary rights. I listened to the thoughts of Government backbenchers on it and I decided to compile a motion that would clarify situations. That is very important for people who feel there is a vacuum in the information that is required.

I will go through the motion bit by bit. I almost know it off by heart at this stage. The first matter that arose, which is included in the motion, was the types of ownership. In the motion I refer to the Minister introducing regulations in September regarding solid fuel. Turbary rights was always talked about. I have spoken to people who had fee simple rights, freehold rights, acquired rights, family rights, leasehold rights, commonage rights on mountains and in different areas and squatters' rights. There are ten different rights of ownership that people would have had down through the years. Indeed, as chairman of the Turf Cutters and Contractors Association, TCCA, when dealing with the National Parks and Wildlife Service on the designation, I know it is very familiar with the different types of rights. In fairness to it, it has recognised all those rights through the years. Rather than civil servants writing scripts and so forth, it would be good to have a straight, open debate. I would be obliged if the Minister would note with regard to the rights I have spoken about that they are recognised. It is not just turbary rights, as the Taoiseach said one day. A turbary right is just one part of a right that is involved. Clarification is needed in respect of a lot of this.

I will move to the second part of the motion. I come from Lisnageeragh bog and Turlough. It is designated. On one side of the road there are approximately 3,000 acres and on the other side there are approximately 100 acres between spread ground. That does 80 families for all their lives. An acre of bog would last them for about 200 years. When the habitats directive came into force years ago the people on one side of the road were asked if they would sell their bog or move to a relocation bog if it was possible. Unfortunately, in some parts of the country we have not been successful in getting relocation bogs. Some people were asked if they would take turf supplied by the State. That is done on a yearly basis up until 2025 or 2026. Some people were asked to take monetary compensation and were asked to buy turf somewhere else. Those people co-operated with the State. Early on, there were some who went under licence. That is another right that nobody appears to be familiar with. These people got a 65-year licence if they went four or five miles up or down the road. These were helping people with regard to the habitats directive and in respect of preserving a representative sample of bog in Ireland. Those people are left in a vacuum at present. With some of the media coverage that emerged, and I am not blaming the Minister, they do not know whether they are sitting or standing or coming or going. That needs clarification.

Then there are the people who traditionally had a right of renting. They could live in a big or small town or be out in the middle of the countryside. They might have a wet bit of bog that they did not develop and left it there and they might rent a plot from somebody up or down the road or there might be somebody who gives them a plot. People have been doing this for years. They have a right of renting, but they would not have the turbary right that is talked about.

They also need to be exempted, as I have outlined in the motion. This is for the simple reason that we do not need to complicate matters. We need to make sure that clear messages are sent out. The Department needs to ensure that it specifically categorises or explains the various things with which there are no problems

The phrase "turbary right" was used to cover everything. This panicked many people who had a freehold, particularly elderly individuals who are solely reliant on turf. I would be obliged if the Minister clarified that he would be willing to put in an exemption for all of these people. Such an exemption is provided for in the motion. It would give clarity to people to know this. In order that the Minister understands the position, I will explain that when a person rents a plot, it could be on someone else's land. The turf is brought out and spread on the ground. Those renting the plot look after it, turn it and foot it. They might get someone to bring it home or they might bring it home themselves using a car and a trailer. It all depends. Generally, the amounts of turf involved are not large.

There is not a Deputy in the Dáil who does not support doing as much retrofitting as possible. As a turf contractor, through the years I have seen that as more installation has gone into houses they need to cut less turf. In general, ten hoppers are used. When installation goes in, we see approximately two hoppers fewer being used on a yearly basis. This message needs to go out from here. We are not opposed to retrofitting. We fully support it and have done so. We supported the Minister on smoky coal last year and on previous occasions and I want to be clear on this. Something that needs to be understood is that many people in rural areas are on €13,000 a year. They are low-income families. I will call a spade a spade. I grew up beside a bog. I was born and bred on it. People may not be as affluent or wealthy as those in other parts of the country. The land is not of as good a quality. We need to put things into perspective.

In the motion, I speak about the Government working with the industry. When this was announced first there was talk about a ban on the placing on the market, the distribution or selling of turf. Anybody who understands turf and who has known about it all their lives knows there is good quality turf that has been seasoned. People dry it and let it season. I have listened to some of the Minister's colleagues state peat briquettes were fine. We can have a sod of turf as dry as a peat briquette. With no disrespect to him, the Minister will probably say that UCD and the EPA have done sampling. What were they sampling? We have also done sampling and have the result.

People can comply in the same way as they do with timber. When the Minister introduced the rules on timber last year I was very outspoken about the problem happening throughout Ireland. Unfortunately, bad quality timber, such as spruce, was being cut. People might be as well burn the Irish Independentin the fire because it would go that quickly. It was being cut one day, split the following day and then sold at the weekend. That is no good. We all know this. It is common sense. If we learned anything from the generation gone by we were always taught from knee high that timber is cut in January or February. Then, as we say in rural Ireland, it is left to season. There are more sophisticated ways to do this such as kiln drying. It can also be put into a shed where a good breeze can get at it. Over the summer months and into the back end of the year, it seasons.

I will be very honest about the tests we did. They were done on turf that was cut last May, which is a year ago now. The tests were done a month ago. The moisture content was extremely good. Something else that needs to be understood from the generation gone by is that an awful lot of people have a store and keep a supply for a year or two ahead. There is a saying down the country that it is like flint it goes so dry and tough. There is good quality burning in it. This needs to be understood. The industry will work with the Minister. From everything I have looked at the Minister does not have to press a destruct button by saying we need to ban the sale of turf. There are regulations and the Minister will be looking at them with regard to air quality.

Down through the years, we have seen the amount of coal used to keep the lights on in this country. The EPA gave a licence to burn tyres. There is a feeling at present, and this is being honest with the Minister, that the ordinary people are being picked on. They are not happy about this to be quite honest. It is not only coming from people who cut turf. It is coming from people who throw their heads up in the air and ask "Jesus, what is next?". We look at the small fry compared with what is going on around the world. It is very important that clear messages come out and that we resolve this matter.

I look at the age profile of the people I do work for. I am grey-haired myself but they are a bit greyer because they are a bit older. We are using an sledgehammer to crack a nut because it will phase out in its own way in the next ten to 12 years. The next generation is going down a different route when building new houses. Nobody has a problem with this. After ten or 12 years we should have a system in place that is beneficial to the owners, regardless of what they are. They are not all farmers. The Minister must remember that in previous times when people got a council house, they got with it a turf bank, as we call it, and a turbary right, as the Minister speaks about. They did not own an acre of land. The old saying was that it went with the chimney of the house. Bord na Móna built houses in County Roscommon for its workers. Those workers had turbary rights for cutting turf. We have to be very careful. It is not only someone abroad in the sticks such as where I live who might have a turbary right. It might be someone in a medium-sized town or a smaller town. It also needs to be noted that many parents when making a will consider members of the family who need a bit of fuel for the fire.

I again thank the Minister for accepting the motion and for coming to the House. We need to resolve this issue because of the anxiety among the community. Mixed messaging is not a good thing.

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