Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am glad to have an opportunity to speak on this important legislation. The old saying is that it is an ill wind that does not blow some good. The pandemic caused us all to concentrate on the particular circumstances that applied in some situations. People were vulnerable in particular situations and were called upon to work for as long as possible in order to keep the show on the road and in order to ensure that they had sufficient funds to pay the rent or mortgage and at the same time, were able to contribute to the emergency that existed.

I want to correct a number of claims that were made by the Opposition, and by Sinn Féin Deputies in particular. They mentioned that a previous Government consisting of the Labour Party and Fine Gael introduced restrictive legislation in this particular area. We must revisit that for a moment and the circumstances in which that happened. Members of the then Government were faced with a situation whereby there was a possibility of paying nothing to anybody for anything, including pensions, public sector wages and as a result, wages in the private sector. The IMF was ensconced in Government Buildings, less than 200 m from here. There was no money to pay for anything. There was no place to borrow money. We had no borrowing capacity and no banks to lend us money. We were going to get nothing from anybody. I would be the first to accept criticism when warranted but in those particular circumstances, the choices were very limited. An bord snip nua went around and snipped everything that could be snipped, anywhere and everywhere, with consequential negative impacts on people all over the place. When we criticise such issues, and I have no problem with the criticism, we do need recognise the circumstances that prevailed at the time. At that point, we were between a rock and a hard place.

I acknowledge the points made in relation to the continent. It is true that there are variations and that Europe is ahead of us in some areas. However, we are ahead of Europe in other areas. That is something which does not get so much coverage. We need to keep that in mind and to recognise that in this particular situation, we had to learn quickly. A new situation developed and that may well happen again. New situations will develop from time to time that will affect each and every one of us in one way or another. When we are faced with that type of reality, decisions have to be made by the Government and by Ministers. It is important to take into account all of these factors and features. It is also important to remember that the trade union movement in this country was under extraordinary pressure and criticism during the period because it was not able to do the job that it would ordinarily be expected to do. That was just a fact of life. Many people will criticise employers on the one hand or trade unions on the other but there is a balance and a place for both. They all have to be observed and we have to do our best to meet their requirements, as they arise, from time to time. In any event, hopefully we have learned and we recognise that there will be other instances in the future that will be challenging and that we have to accept.

In terms of the particulars, I am not so sure that any person taking up a new position or a new job is likely to want to opt out at an early stage on sick leave without good cause. There may be exceptions to that rule but generally speaking, people are not going to opt out. They are at work and they want to remain at work. They want to ensure that they remain at work by being present in the workplace at the earliest possible stage.

We may learn much from the application of the legislation. Reference has been made to the fact that changes are proposed to ameliorate certain situations that may arise. I accept all of that. The Tánaiste indicated his willingness to see how the legislation works and to determine whether it works to the extent intended. He has said he will look at it again once it has bedded in. That is a fair commitment to give at this stage. Indeed, it is a commitment that needs to be given with regard to all legislation because laws can have different impacts on different people in different situations, particularly when specific challenges arise.

I welcome the fact that this Bill has been introduced and acknowledge that the pandemic brought particular issues to light that affected people in a negative way. At the same time, we needed people in the workforce. That situation will arise again and again. All in all, the legislation is welcome and hopefully in the course of Committee and Report Stages, all possibilities will be examined with a view to ensuring that the Bill sits easily with both employers and employees in the future.

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