Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I commend the Minister and the staff in his Department on producing this very fine piece of work. Trying to put together a large piece of legislation is no easy task. Not only must one set out in a coherent format for what you want to achieve but you also have to do that by making sure that it is consistent with the law that already exists. I am surprised the Minister has managed to get it onto the floor of the Dáil so quickly. As it is such a huge piece of work, we need to give it careful scrutiny. A great deal of work will be done on Committee Stage. The most important thing is to get it right rather than get it enacted immediately. However, I would like to see it enacted this year.

It is important that we are aware of the purpose of the legislation. It is not simply to try to reformulate or represent our electoral laws but to defend our democracy. We need to really focus on that when we talk about the principles and the sections of the Bill today and on Committee Stage. When you think of democracy, it is a very young form of governance throughout the world. Some 150 years ago, very few places around the world had democracy. We assume that democracy will be prevalent throughout the world in years to come but that is not the case. We can see there are huge numbers of powerful and significant countries around the world that do not exercise or operate democracy. We see countries such as China and countries such as Russia, which purports to exercise democracy, but we know that it does not exercise democracy in the same way as we understand it in this country. There are many countries where there are still absolute rulers who inherit their role from family members. We do not want that form of governance in Ireland. The way people of Ireland want to ensure their government and politics operates is that they want the ability to vote in governments and to vote them out. We need to appreciate that in recent times there have been very significant threats to democracies in countries that we assume democracy is safe. We all had an opportunity to apprise what happened during Brexit. We do not really understand the full forces that were at play there but we know for certain that outside parties exerted significant influence in the United Kingdom in the lead up to that vote. We saw the same in the United States where online activity and interference from outside and other countries can have a significant impact.

I suppose the biggest threat to democracy in the world today does not come specifically from other countries but from the mediums and the technology that is available to people who want to influence democracy in their own direction to their own benefit.

If you think about it, when you look at what can now be done online, huge numbers of people can be affected and swayed to think or to vote in certain ways as a result of online activity. Many people, I regret to say it, outsource their thinking now to what they see and hear online. It is a hugely powerful medium. The online activity, when it comes to the political realm, really needs to be regulated. I commend the Minister for including a section in this legislation that will deal with the regulation of online advertising.

I want the electoral commission when established to be a vibrant, active body that really recognises that its primary function is to protect and to enhance Irish democracy. I welcome the fact that the Minister has indicated that the chairperson of the electoral commission, is going to be a judge. I do not say that out of any deference to judges, but I think that in Ireland that the public has a level of trust in the Judiciary which may not exist with other sectors of society. If they see that the electoral commission is to be chaired by a sitting or a retired judge, that will give a general sense of confidence to the Irish public that this is an independent and impartial body.

I have also looked at section 9, which talks about the recommendations that could be made for membership of the ordinary members of the commission. I hope that we will have people on that commission who have a practical understanding of politics. I am not necessarily saying that they have to be professors of politics in universities or other third-level institutions, although that would help. I also think that we should not downplay the expertise that exists in this House and in the Seanad. Sometimes we are very hesitant about putting forward politicians or former politicians to play important, independent roles. Obviously, when we are in this House, and when we are members of political parties, or even if we are purportedly Independent, we do not come with the level of independence that is required for objective assessment of the operation of the electoral commission. Yet, I have no doubt that once Members leave this House, that they do have that ability to exercise independence and they would be able to do so in the knowledge of how politics operates practically on the ground.

There are a number of other matters in it as well, which I thought were interesting. There is a provision in it for anonymous electors. Maybe I need to read the explanatory memo more, but I could not understand at the outset what type of application would justify a person being able to be granted the status of an anonymous elector. It may be the case that there are people who have very sensitive jobs, or who do not want to have their details recorded on the register, but I know the Minister will explain that in due course as the Bill goes through Committee Stage.

The elector register itself is in a significantly bad condition. In my constituency, and it may be the case in the Minister’s constituency, there is a huge number of people who have flats and then they move on. They do not necessarily take their names off the electoral register. That is why I believe that the turnout for elections in my constituency sometimes looks pretty low. In fact, I suspect the reasons for it is that there are many people are on the register are just not there anymore and who are not voting. We need to clean up the electoral register so that we can get a proper appraisal of the actual turnout in elections.

Part of the reason apathy can spread in politics is when people think that people are not bothering to vote. That is a terrible thing to hear somebody say, that they are not going to bother to vote because they look and see that a significant body of people is not voting. If we have a system whereby the electoral register does not accurately record turnout, that will just breed that level of apathy. I also welcome the fact that we are going to have a provision whereby people are going to get onto a stepping stone register. People aged 16 and 17 will know that when they get to the age of 18 they will be on the register. Many people in the House have spoken about how we should give the vote to people who are 16 years of age. I remain open to having a discussion about that. The Constitution says that we have to be 18 to vote, so we would have to referendum in respect of that. If we want to go down that route, we should first try it in local elections, rather than working immediately into seeing whether or not we should change the Constitution.

I also want to deal with the issue of advocacy work and with the definition of political purposes. I saw the Minister earlier nodding that he would give consideration to this matter on Committee Stage. It is a difficult issue but we need to appreciate that there are many bodies in Irish society and groups of residents who come together to advocate for a particular issue. They do not believe that they are involved in political activity. They do not believe that they are involved in something that will require regulation by the electoral commission. It may be the case that if they are involved in something that comes broadly within the definition of political purposes, that they then need to register. We need to be sure that we do not completely over-regulate this sphere, because that would have a negative impact on what we are trying to do, which is to protect and to enhance democracy.

I was listening to Deputy Alan Farrell talking about whether we should be closing schools for the purposes of elections. There is no reason, of course, why we cannot have elections on a Saturday. We had it the last time and I think it worked. It did not appear to increase turnout that much. Similarly, however, it did not appear to reduce it that much. If possible, maybe we should do in other countries, such as in France this weekend, let us have elections at a weekend so that we do not interfere with the schooling of children.

We should also note that under the Constitution there is a seven-year electoral cycle and legislation provides that there must be an election every five years. That is an issue that the electoral commission will have to deal with as well and whether it thinks it is appropriate or necessary that we would amend our Constitution so that it expressly states that there must be an election every five years.

Finally, there are a couple of difficult issues from which I do not think that the Minister can shy away. I think he is going to have to deal with them. Obviously, we operate on an island where there are two jurisdictions. We have funding of political parties in the southern jurisdiction that is different to the northern jurisdiction. It is now going to be increasingly the case that parties in both jurisdictions will engage in political activity on both sides. Hopefully, that is something that our own party will do in due course. I think we need to ensure that there is some consistency and protection there when it comes to the regulation of political funding. If you are going to contest an election in Dáil Éireann, I think that all aspects of your political funding have to be disclosed and should be available for public inspection. I do not make that comment about any one political party; it applies to all of us here. If you are raising money in a different jurisdiction and you are running in an election here that information must be disclosed. What will protect our democracy is information. If you look at the information that we can provide already, there are details of donations that have been made and there are details about expenditure. We all have to put in electoral reforms after an election. All of that information is very useful and I do not think that it inconveniences Members of the House. It does provide the public with confidence that our political system is operating above board. If we do not do that, we will find ourselves in the situation where there will be parts of our political system that the public may incorrectly perceive are being hidden from them.

Finally, it is a fantastic piece of work but I want to put another piece of work on the Minister's plate as well. The electoral Acts are all over the place. I am referring to the 1997 Act and others. At some stage we will have compile them all together for the sake not just of the Members of this House, but members of the public so that they can pick up the one Bible, which will be their electoral Act and electoral reform Act together and find out from A to Z what is and is not permitted when it comes to contesting elections in Ireland.

We have a great democracy in this country. People fought and died for it. We should value it and we should ensure that we preserve it. Once again, I commend the Minister and the people in his Department for preparing this legislation.

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