David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I had written a speech but I wish to respond to the Minister's speech instead. There was nothing new in the Minister's speech. We were expecting a bit more. I must say that everything in his speech has been said before. I did not hear anything in the speech that adds to what we have already heard.

I do agree with something the Minister said. He said that a red-line issue for him is that there can be no religious interference and that we need to get the issues of governance and ownership right. He said he will not bring any proposal to the Government unless it provides absolute assurance that all legally permissible services are provided in the new hospital and, in addition, he will ensure that the ownership and governance arrangements protect the State's significant investment in this new hospital. I share the Minister's objective, as I am sure everyone in this House does. We need to see it become a reality.

There are three key issues. There is the ownership, which is important. There is the governance of the hospital, which is also important. There is also the provision of services without any influence of any kind. As the Minister has accepted, that is also important.

He went on to say in his opening statement that the HSE or the State will own the building. We know that. What about the land? What will be the legal arrangement for the land? I heard nothing in his opening statement that referred to the land.

He also said something he attributed to healthcare workers, for whom I have enormous respect, who he said wrote to national newspapers, as we know they did. I took from the Minister's opening contribution that he was talking through those healthcare workers about misinformation and misunderstanding. The Minister cannot say, on the one hand, that he accepts there are genuine and legitimate concerns around governance and other issues, which we have all raised, and, on the other hand, say there has been misinformation and misunderstandings without giving a bit more context. I hope we are not seeing professionals, for whom I have respect, being played off against the Opposition. That would be the wrong road for the Minister to go down. It would be unacceptable. Those professionals can speak for themselves.

If the Minister is saying that those professionals do not share any of the difficulties and issues we have, is that because they have seen something we have not? The Minister spoke about the legal framework in his opening speech. I have not seen the legal framework. I do not know what is in it. He said he will bring a memo to the Cabinet that will address the concerns which have been raised by the Opposition and by campaigners and others as well. We need to see that legal framework. At the very least, the framework will have to come before the Joint Committee on Health. It will have to be fully interrogated. I would go so far as to say that a special Oireachtas committee would need to be set up to do that. This is fundamental. The Minister has stood where I am, in opposition, for many years, as did many of his colleagues, and railed against how the State treated women and how it failed women when it came to healthcare. We know about all of the mistakes and discussed some of them this morning when we spoke about the women's healthcare strategy and plan which has been put in place. Women are not going to take the Minister or anybody else at face value unless they see the detail and unless we have an opportunity to properly interrogate the legal framework that the Minister says he has secured. We want to confirm that it deals with all of our concerns. I ask the Minister to commit, in his later contribution, to at least give the health committee an opportunity to interrogate that legal framework when it is agreed and before he takes it to the Cabinet. The other option is to establish a special Oireachtas committee. This issue is of fundamental importance.

I have to say I am a bit disappointed. This debate was built up as an opportunity for the Minister to put people's concerns to bed for once and for all. Those concerns are simple. We are going to spend considerable amounts of money on this hospital. We should do that and there is no quarrel with the need for a new national maternity hospital. In fact, I do not have a problem with the location of the site because it ticks all the boxes. However, I have a concern that we could spend up to €1 billion to own the building but not the land. I have a concern about the convoluted system and governance model which appears to have been put in place. That is problematic. I have not been comforted by what I have heard in that respect.

I am disappointed that there was nothing new in what the Minister said. There was nothing he has not said on the previous three occasions we have discussed the matter in this House. I heard nothing new. The Minister must do better. He must properly meet our concerns. I do not believe, on the basis of his opening statement, that they have been met. I ask him to reflect on that. I ask that when he contributes again later in the debate he will confirm that the Opposition and the Oireachtas will have a full and proper opportunity to interrogate the legal framework he says deals with our concerns. We must also be consulted. I have to make up my own mind, as others must, that the framework addresses our concerns. I repeat that I have concerns.

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